Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Stavia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:49 pm

Tincup wrote:
Stavia wrote:Whoops!! Low!!!
I eat very similarly to Julie, but more grass fed beef lamb and venison because its what is only available here in NZ


Wow, I wondered for a moment, as we all seem to eat similarly when we have been together.
Yup sowee. Too much multitasking.

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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby NewRon » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:48 am

Stavia wrote:https://peterattiamd.com/davefeldmantranscript/

I have read the transcript, which has comments by Dayspring.
It is quite sobering to see Daysprings corrections of the discussion and I intend to continue with my prescribing of statins for those with established coronary artery disease.
Lipids are extraordinarily complex and it is IMO dangerous to reduce an approach to them to black and white.



I skimmed through the transcript and while I don't have any of the technical expertise of Stavia and others on this forum, I saw enough to worry me too.

I wonder if a webinar/interview with Dr Dayspring would be possible, wrt lipids and Apo E4? I appreciate it would be a highly technical discussion but I think it could be beneficial, if only to point out the intricacies and interdependencies of lipidology.
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Re: RE: Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Stavia » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:07 am

NewRon wrote:
Stavia wrote:https://peterattiamd.com/davefeldmantranscript/

I have read the transcript, which has comments by Dayspring.
It is quite sobering to see Daysprings corrections of the discussion and I intend to continue with my prescribing of statins for those with established coronary artery disease.
Lipids are extraordinarily complex and it is IMO dangerous to reduce an approach to them to black and white.



I skimmed through the transcript and while I don't have any of the technical expertise of Stavia and others on this forum, I saw enough to worry me too.

I wonder if a webinar/interview with Dr Dayspring would be possible, wrt lipids and Apo E4? I appreciate it would be a highly technical discussion but I think it could be beneficial, if only to point out the intricacies and interdependencies of lipidology.
NewRon, it was all way above my paygrade. What was sobering was the amount of corrections by Dayspring in his comments.



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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Julie G » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:39 am

I skimmed through the transcript and while I don't have any of the technical expertise of Stavia and others on this forum, I saw enough to worry me too.

NewRon, I appreciate your concerns and hope you'll join our discussion so that you can voice them. We plan to give Dave the opportunity to share his hypotheses, but also to challenge him especially as it relates to he ApoE4 gene. FWIW, I got much more from the podcast itself than the actual transcript (which is unusual) but I took note of the fact that Dayspring corrected Attia as often as he corrected Feldman.
I wonder if a webinar/interview with Dr Dayspring would be possible, wrt lipids and Apo E4? I appreciate it would be a highly technical discussion but I think it could be beneficial, if only to point out the intricacies and interdependencies of lipidology.

I'm open to that! I wonder if you're familiar with this epic thread in which Dr. Dayspring interacts with members of our community discussing ApoE4 and lipids? I'm guessing that you've also listened to his recent five part series with Attia in which he dives into the 'intricacies and interdependence" of lipidology. I found that talk very enlightening. It's also very interesting to see that Dr. Dayspring, in an effort to address his own metabolic markers, is now using a low carb approach combined with fasting as do many members of our community.

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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby NewRon » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:11 am

Julie,

I lost the will to live about halfway through the Dayspring/Attia podcasts. I was just SO confused!

I actually haven't seen the Dayspring thread, so thanks for pointing it out to me.

Like Stavia, my LDL cholesterol tends to increase with increase in hi fat diet. In fact, despite a lowish carb diet and one meal a day being vegan, my LDL cholesterol has increased from 4.4 (170) to 4.8 (186) in the last year.

Can't get particle counts here :(
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Stavia » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:19 am

Julie I never specifically said who Dayspring corrected. I just said there were many corrections - which was sobering for me generally, as I naively assume prominent bloggers with science background and a large following (no names specifically at all, I am speaking in general terms) have facts and context correct. I certainly dont have enough in depth biochem knowledge to know if nuances are being correctly interpreted and discussed in such blogs generally.
I am reminded not to neglect mainstream evidence and not to be caught up in black and white anti-statin rhetoric.

By the way, remember when we mentioned fasting and calorie restriction when Dayspring kindly was on our site, and he was dead against because he said it was impossible and I was terribly rude to him (huge apology Prof, I am so so sorry for being so rude, please forgive me) about his weight showing he had an obvious bias against it? Well I am delighted he is feeling well and doing so well on what we identified years ago.

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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Julie G » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:40 am

I lost the will to live about halfway through the Dayspring/Attia podcasts. I was just SO confused!

:lol: :lol: :lol: I hear you! I took it all in with one fell swoop during an invigorating hour long walk followed by an all-day yard clean-up. I'm sure much of it went over my head, but some very important concepts stuck. I was most pleased with their observations that cholesterol can be too low and cause cognitive impairment (with an in-depth discussion of the associated observations & cautions) but I still remain unconvinced that higher levels = better cognition and overall health. I think it's complicated and we still have lots to learn.
I am reminded not to neglect mainstream evidence and not to be caught up in black and white anti-statin rhetoric.

That actually might have been one of my biggest takeaways from the Dayspring/Attia talk, followed by the warnings against getting cholesterol too low for optimal cognition... which you experienced firsthand, Stavia.
By the way, remember when we mentioned fasting and calorie restriction when Dayspring kindly was on our site, and he was dead against because he said it was impossible and I was terribly rude to him (huge apology Prof, I am so so sorry for being so rude, please forgive me) about his weight showing he had an obvious bias against it? Well I am delighted he is feeling well and doing so well on what we identified years ago.

me too, you naughty girl! :D

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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby jgilberAZ » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:51 am

I still believe high LDL is only a problem in a high glucose environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKJaQeteE0

Otherwise, high LDL is protective.
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Julie G » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:54 am

I still believe high LDL is only a problem in a high glucose environment.

You're not alone, my friend! Which should make for an epic talk with Dave... :D

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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby cdamaden » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:09 pm

jgilberAZ wrote:I still believe high LDL is only a problem in a high glucose environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKJaQeteE0

Otherwise, high LDL is protective.


From what I gathered from Dr. Dayspring, his primary concern is LDL-P (or APO-B) and that LDL-C could be discordant from LDL-P and therefore is not reliable. That seems to align with the beginning of the video. Perhaps I went through the video too quickly but I didn't see Dr. Mason address the case where the Trigs and HDL values are favorable yet the patient still had high LDL-P.
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