Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

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mike
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby mike » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:13 pm

MarcR wrote:I'm no doctor, but I would guess that you are hypo- rather than hyper-insulinemic. Perhaps your pancreas was damaged by a prior period of insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia and no longer has enough functional beta cells to produce sufficient insulin?

I wonder if Dr. Richard Bernstein's insights would apply to your situation. He's an 84-year-old engineer and physician who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 12. As an adult he innovated his way to good health and has spent the rest of his life helping others learn his methods.


Yes, I was also thinking that would be the case. It does not explain why I did not respond well to insulin injections. If I were close to T1D, then insulin should've worked for me. It was a vicious cycle - insulin then after a bit, sugars go back up, so more insulin, then sugars go back up... My weight went to 270 for my 6'3" height. Quitting insulin did not cause a rise in sugars, though I lost ten pounds without trying. Feldman was worried about gluconeogenesis at one point, but explain why my body continued to maintain my sugars in the 80-90 range 19 days into a water fast. I'm thinking maybe my sugar thermostat is out of whack, or I'm now only IR in the brain, and my sugars are high to get more into the brain...?

I've been following Bernstein for a number of years now. Thanks.
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Tincup » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:22 pm

mike wrote:Nice job on your first podcast Julie and Marc!

Julie, you mentioned at one point that folks who are IR can't fast. I've done three extended water fasts, so does that mean that I'm NOT IR? My glucose levels are very high...


Mike, podcaster Jimmy Moore did several extended fasts in 2015 and 2016 as research for writing the Complete Guide to Fasting with Jason Fung. I happened to spend a day or so with Jimmy in Feb, 2016. Jimmy is metabolically deranged. He has lost a lot of weight, but still has a hard time keeping the weight off. In the book, Jimmy mentions that his fasting insulin was 10.0 after a 17 day fast. Jimmy was able to fast the 17 days, but his insulin was still elevated. When I checked insulin on day seven of a fast two years ago, it was in the range of 1.0. So I would say Jimmy is still somewhat hyperglycemic. Of course the test as Catherine Crofts has recommended is to test insulin two hours after your largest meal of the day. If <=30, you are good.
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Tincup » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:23 pm

Great job Julie & Marc!!
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby mike » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:50 pm

Tincup, Back when I was diagnosed, you were either type 1 or type 2, and not much testing was done. I've had few if any insulin tests done. I had a c-peptide a year ago, and it was 1.2 ng / ml. I'm about to have some lab work done - anything you would suggest?

Also, wouldn't having the test done two hours after your biggest meal make the results dependent on that meal? I minimize carbs..
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby Tincup » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:14 pm

mike wrote:Also, wouldn't having the test done two hours after your biggest meal make the results dependent on that meal? I minimize carbs..


The idea is to "stress test" your pancreas. See how it performs under load.

If I recall the right person, you've done 17 and 20+ day fasts and are under the direction of Raymund Edwards, correct?

If so, I'd just keep on doing what you're doing (my opinion).
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby mike » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:44 am

Yes, I'm following OKL. I understand the stress part, but it just seems like you would want a measurable food intake to be able to make useful conclusions about how the body responds. Speaking of stress, it is amazing how my sugars go up when I get stressed...
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby floramaria » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:10 pm

Julie and Mark,Thanks for setting up this webinar with Dave. It was very provacative!

Having listened to the Dave Attia interview with Dave the day before, and also having listened to 3/5 of Dayspring interviews, I am thoroughly confused. Lacking the skills to analyze the arguments on either side, I find everyone’s explanations convincing, though mutually exclusive!
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby cdamaden » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:36 pm

floramaria wrote:... I find everyone’s explanations convincing, though mutually exclusive!

I agree. The thing frustrating to me, and was at the root of the question I asked Dave, was whether they are even looking at the same evidence. (Dave focused on how bias affects us all, which is true, but doesn't get to the heart of the question.) I would like to see a dialogue on what team A says is their most compelling evidence, then team B says what theirs is, and then require each team to discuss why the other team's evidence doesn't convince them to change their views. I feel like there is a lot of discussion on why team A (or B)'s model is flawed but less on debating the implications of experiments X, Y, and Z.

I would also add that Dave is very gracious and a model of humility and civility. It seems that many of the other members debating these points are too quick to be dismissive of other perspectives (those low carb people, those establishment lipidologist, those people who dismiss HDL, chortle chortle), which I guess is a bit of human nature and tribal but disappointing nonetheless. I lose a lot of respect for those who use ad hominem justifications.
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby mike » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:27 pm

One thing that I was a bit surprised by during the podcast - the folks who asked questions had their name mentioned. I don't particularly care, but some might. If this is going to be the way of it going forward, you might want to put a disclaimer in there some place. :?
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Re: Anybody interested in a lipid chat with Dave Feldman?

Postby DaveKeto » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:44 pm

floramaria wrote:Julie and Mark,Thanks for setting up this webinar with Dave. It was very provacative!

Having listened to the Dave Attia interview with Dave the day before, and also having listened to 3/5 of Dayspring interviews, I am thoroughly confused. Lacking the skills to analyze the arguments on either side, I find everyone’s explanations convincing, though mutually exclusive!


Hi floramaria -- I'm going to try to drop into this thread a bit over the next few days (although it may be very sporadic). Let me know if there's some particular questions you have and I'll see if I can answer them. :)


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