Exercise and Ketosis

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FitFoodie
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Exercise and Ketosis

Postby FitFoodie » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:07 pm

A friend gave me some Ketostix (urine test strips) and I've been having fun doing little tests. I work out a lot and have always preferred to do so on an empty stomach so I don't get burpy or cramps. I've suspected I get into ketosis after morning workouts but never had proof. Turns out sometimes I don't need the morning workout even.

Last night: special occasion dinner of hand pulled noodles with veg, and shrimp dumplings. Then 14-hour fast including dog walk. I used a test strip: no ketones.
Then a 1-hour jumpy-no-rest dance class. At 16 hours of still no eating, I used another test strip: yes ketones.

Different night: tofu, kale & olives for dinner. 14 hour overnight fast including dog walk but no formal workout. Test strip: yes ketones (same shade of pink as above after 16 hrs and dance)

I'm thinking with a LOT of exercise, ketosis is possible even with a high amount of carbs (pile of noodles). Of course, I'm not staying in ketosis with how I'm eating but I am in and out of it.

Possibly this is even where some of the benefit of exercise comes from, though I think most people DO eat before exercise, fearing low energy if they don't.

Does this all seem unexpected... or obvious lol?

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Re: Exercise and Ketosis

Postby Tincup » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:47 pm

Exercise can induce states of ketosis regardless of diet. This is known. A friend and his wife who lived near Joshua Tree National Park would do single speed mountain biking. They could get serum ketones > 4 mmol/L just from their exercise. This is also known in the exercise world. I happen to be 5 days water fasted at this moment and their numbers are greater than mine - 3.4 mmol/L.

Ketone measurements are interesting as, depending on what you are measuring, you have storage (generally beta hydroxybuterate in the serum), production by the liver and usage by the body. Exercise, low carb diets, medium chain triglycerides (especially caprylic acid, C-8) and fasting can increase production. Exercise and also long term adaptation can increase usage. When measuring urine ketones (acetoacetate), you are measuring those that are unused. In many cases, these will decrease over time as the body gets more efficient at using these ketones.

I've been keto-adapted for over 10 years. From May 2019 to around Dec, I intentionally ate 200 or more grams/day of carbs as starches. Only once or twice were my morning serum ketones a zero on the meter (usually after a 12 hour fast). Since I started this extended fast - hadn't done one for a year or so - I've not had to adapt (i.e. no keto flu). This has been true since my initial adaptation.
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Re: Exercise and Ketosis

Postby xactly » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:08 am

FitFoodie wrote:Possibly this is even where some of the benefit of exercise comes from, though I think most people DO eat before exercise, fearing low energy if they don't.

Does this all seem unexpected... or obvious lol?

Rhonda Patrick (Found My Fitness) has shared research that says you only burn fat when you exercise in a fasted state. She also wears a continuous glucose monitor (CGM), and she said exercising while fasted helps keep her glucose and insulin in a steady state the rest of the day. She said exercising after eating does not provide the same benefit. I'm trying to exercise in the morning now before breakfast; however, I'm not fully fasted, since I generally consume a couple of lattes in the morning (using homemade almond milk and 1 tsp of Monkfruit sweetener in each).

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Re: Exercise and Ketosis

Postby FitFoodie » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:22 am

Tincup wrote:Ketone measurements are interesting as, depending on what you are measuring, you have storage (generally beta hydroxybuterate in the serum), production by the liver and usage by the body. Exercise, low carb diets, medium chain triglycerides (especially caprylic acid, C-8) and fasting can increase production. Exercise and also long term adaptation can increase usage. When measuring urine ketones (acetoacetate), you are measuring those that are unused. In many cases, these will decrease over time as the body gets more efficient at using these ketones.


Tincup, Thanks so much for this info. I'd read that blood testing is more accurate than urine strips, but didn't realize they were measuring different things: unused vs storage/usage. You also confirmed what I suspected -- that exercise can get you into ketosis and that adaptation happens. I'm glad something good has come of my burpy stomach LOL.
Congratulations on your adaptation. That's really cool and thank you for sharing your experiments.

xactly wrote:Rhonda Patrick (Found My Fitness) has shared research that says you only burn fat when you exercise in a fasted state. She also wears a continuous glucose monitor (CGM), and she said exercising while fasted helps keep her glucose and insulin in a steady state the rest of the day. She said exercising after eating does not provide the same benefit. I'm trying to exercise in the morning now before breakfast; however, I'm not fully fasted, since I generally consume a couple of lattes in the morning (using homemade almond milk and 1 tsp of Monkfruit sweetener in each).


Xactly, This is also so interesting. Thanks for sharing. My goal with exercise has always been mucus clearance for a lung disease and not getting injured so I can keep exercising, and I've ignored so many other aspects of exercise -- especially blood sugar. Now I'm intrigued.

I understand the importance of that morning coffee. I used to take mine with half and half, but a few years ago I returned to my teenage habit of drinking black coffee. I started my coffee drinking career while working summers at a cinnamon bun bakery. Black coffee was the only way I could enjoy the super sweet free-food employee benefit. As an adult, the switch back was assisted by upgrading to kinda fancy recently-roasted beans. Anyway, sometimes I eat a banana on my drive to a dance class -- I believe I can tell when my muscles need that potassium -- so that obviously shifts things on those days. (Though I bet the potassium is probably not getting where it needs to be as fast as I imagine.)

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Re: Exercise and Ketosis

Postby FitFoodie » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:27 pm

Tincup wrote:I've been keto-adapted for over 10 years. From May 2019 to around Dec, I intentionally ate 200 or more grams/day of carbs as starches. Only once or twice were my morning serum ketones a zero on the meter (usually after a 12 hour fast). Since I started this extended fast - hadn't done one for a year or so - I've not had to adapt (i.e. no keto flu). This has been true since my initial adaptation.


I'm going to run out of my Ketostix soon and will cease my questioning...maybe ;)
I'm curious what you or anyone think of this ketone and workout scenario:

I tested pre-workout, hadn't eaten since before a workout the previous evening: pink "small" 15mg/dl ketones in urine.
I did a difficult workout, 1 hour mix, half rowing machine, weights, burpees and second half-hour: treadmill.
During the first 20-25 minutes I was draaaging. No treadmill yet, heart rate 60-80% of max. Switched to intervals on treadmill, started feeling awesome, heart rate 75-88% of max.
Drove home still feeling awesome.
Tested and had fewer ketones in urine, between the 5-15 mg/dl shade.

Maybe I used a lot of ketones, thus fewer "leftovers." And the lag/drag was me taking some time for the fat "gas tank" to engage properly?

But I read that intense exercise can cause the liver to break down glycogen...so maybe I started making and using my own sugar halfway into the workout.

I'm guessing the answer to this question is
Get a blood monitor if I'm that curious :roll:

Maybe you can answer this, though:
Is it bad (for the brain) when your liver breaks down glycogen and uses it? My muscles don't feel abused but I did get nauseous about 30 minutes after eating.

Sorry this is way too many details and questions. I did google first.

Edited: and I continued to google. I think this answers my question about whether glycogenesis is something to be concerned about. Glycogenesis is always happening and it feeda some of the body's tissues that don't consume ketones. And it's fine.
https://perfectketo.com/gluconeogenesis/


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