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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:01 pm
by circular
floramaria wrote:
circular wrote:Forgive me for not reading this gargantuthread for the info, but does anyone happen to know when is the best time to measure testosterone in postmenopausal women? I need to do fasting labs, and I usually use a compounded cream once a day after my morning shower, so I can use it right after my shower and before the test and get it going up (how long before it registers high, who knows?), or I can skip it and get it at its low but never know how high it's going. :?

Hi circ, This is just a guess on my part, extrapolating from information that I hope I am remembering correctly. ( How is that for a disclaimer? :lol: ) anyway, FWIW I believe that when I heard Ann Hathaway speak she recommended testing E2 for women with the patch at mid-point of patch life, when E2 would be highest. My guess would be you’d want to test your testosterone at post application level rather than skipping it before the test.

Thanks, I think so too. I don't think it needs to be fasting (?), the other labs do. So maybe I'll just go in and get stuck twice at different times.

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:23 pm
by slacker
circular wrote:does anyone happen to know when is the best time to measure testosterone in postmenopausal women? I need to do fasting labs, and I usually use a compounded cream once a day after my morning shower, so I can use it right after my shower and before the test and get it going up (how long before it registers high, who knows?), or I can skip it and get it at its low but never know how high it's going. :?


I don't have direct experience with testosterone, but have been given different blood testing instructions for each of my 3 hormones. Thyroid hormone pill: skip dose the day before. Estradiol patch twice a week: draw midway between patches. Progesterone pill: no recommendation (probably reaches steady state). For DUTCH urine testing, which starts at dinner and bedtime, then upon awakening and 2 hours later, progesterone to be taken after bedtime urine sample.

I accidentally got my estradiol blood draw 1 hour after putting on a new patch; the results were much higher than when testing between patches. This could be true for your testosterone cream as well.

Have you asked the prescriber of the testosterone when they recommend testing? ;) I don't think it's a cheap test...

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:31 pm
by circular
slacker wrote:Have you asked the prescriber of the testosterone when they recommend testing? ;) I don't think it's a cheap test...

Thanks! Going to print that for future hormone testing. Have had a call in to the prescriber but that office takes days to do anything, if they ever do!

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:15 pm
by Anna
circular wrote:Forgive me for not reading this gargantuthread for the info, but does anyone happen to know when is the best time to measure testosterone in postmenopausal women? I need to do fasting labs, and I usually use a compounded cream once a day after my morning shower, so I can use it right after my shower and before the test and get it going up (how long before it registers high, who knows?), or I can skip it and get it at its low but never know how high it's going. :?


This is something I'm wondering too. Circular, did you get any further info? I've been taking a compounded sublingual for about 2 and a half years with noticeable (but possibly declining) benefits. My blood levels have been similar to my original 18, but maybe that's just because I've been testing in the morning about 24 hours after my last dose. I can't figure out if it's better to catch the dip, the peak, or the mid-point between the two when testing any hormones (including thyroid) -- or perhaps rotate the timing and test more frequently.

My most recent testosterone was <3 (in other words, not detectable), which is clearly not good! :o Stress likely played a role. :cry: My FM doc suggested a weekly subcutaneous injection (which doesn't come up at all while searching this site). My understanding is that with subcutaneous testosterone, the levels would begin to dip after about a week instead of a day. If anyone has any experience with this method, I'd love to hear it.

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:24 pm
by Sam-J
slacker wrote:
jerryb wrote:Sorry to add complications but my wife (78) was put on HRT by Bredesen Practitioner . About four months in she had a very bad reaction with swollen ankles, lethargy, and more gut problems on top of her ongoing IBS type C. It had to be either the HRT or the Bredesen supplements and wlhen these were discontinued the symptoms slowly improved but I don’t think she has returned to previous level physically or cognitely. ( MOCA going from range of 19 to 23 down to 16 supports my impression. ) Have had to discontinue protocol and have only staying in ketosis left as hope.


I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you and your wife have experienced. Since cognitive decline is considered an emergency, practitioners typically start multiple treatments at the same time. And as I'm sure you know, multiple issues can be cause memory loss, so more than one intervention is needed for best results. Unfortunately, when side effects occur, it's difficult to know which of the interventions has caused them. Deciding what to do next is a hard decision.



Thanks everybody for bringing so much information on HRT this post.
I got similar problem with my 70 year old Mother. She was put in HRT by a Bredesen practitioner but discontinued because of an unplanned trip. This was back in September last year and since them I've noticed her becoming more forgetful.

I've read here other people have observed similar conditions with people that went cold turkey on HRT.
Now, I am a little scare about asking her Doctor getting my Mom back to HRT, furthermore I don't know if that will necessarily help reverse her cognition back to how she was before doing it.

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:26 am
by rjkmhk
Does anyone know what the optimal levels for the female hormones are especially for bone building? I'd like to get just enough and none in excess...thanks!

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:04 pm
by MickRobb
Studies seem to indicate that estrogen w/o progesterone offers the most neuroprotective benefit for E4 carriers but my understanding is that progesterone protects against uterine cancer. How do you decide when to take just estrogen w/o progesterone?

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:14 pm
by slacker
Women without a uterus can take estradiol without progesterone.

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:16 am
by Plumster
Does anyone know what the optimal levels for the female hormones are especially for bone building? I'd like to get just enough and none in excess...thanks!


According to Dale Bredesen, optimal numbers are:

Estradiol level = 50-250 pg/ml
Progesterone level = 1-20 ng/ml
Estradiol : progesterone ratio = 10:100
DHEA sulfate = 350-430 mcg/dl
Cortisol (morning) – 10-18 mcg/dl
Pregnenolone = 50-100 ng/dL
Total testosterone (women) = 30-70 ng/dL

Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:36 am
by rjkmhk
Thank you!