Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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slacker
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby slacker » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:06 pm

are these levels optimal for bone health or cognition? (or both...)
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby Plumster » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:49 am

Slacker, they are from The End of Alzheimer's, so certainly for brain health. I can't say for bones. I should add that we've discussed how surprisingly high his DHEA optimal level is compared to others' recs.
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby Ssa » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:01 am

rjkmhk wrote:Does anyone know what the optimal levels for the female hormones are especially for bone building? I'd like to get just enough and none in excess...thanks!


I hope I am doing this quote stuff right. Fairly new here and still learning.
I wanted to share my experience with hormones in regards to bone health. I started getting hormone pellets about 4 1/2 years ago in hopes of reversing my osteoporosis. I have been tracking my bone density for about 12 years. My pellets are estradiol that was a fairly low dose and 2 testosterone pellets ( one of these has an added effect of keeping my testosterone from turning into more estradiol. I also take 100mg oral progesterone at night. I get a DEXA scan every 2 years and my scan 2 years into getting hormones was the worse I have had ever. My last scan a few months ago showed considerable improvement. I went from -3.3 in my worse vertebra to a -2.5 the rest of my vertebrae all improved and moved into osteopenia.

I don’t think hormones had anything to do with my bone density improvement. I have thought many things were the answer over the past 12 years. I’m still trying to pin point my exact reason for my improvement and maybe it’s a culmination of all the things I changed. I have a thread on this in supplements I take and why.

I do know that I hope to never stop getting my pellets. I went through a decade of post menopause without hormones and in comparison I feel much more alive with them. In many ways.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby rjkmhk » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:56 am

Congratulations on your bone scan! I too am taking hormones...mine is a labia cream (before that it was a patch) and I can't imagine doing without hormones either...when I turned 65, I had to change doctors because my current doctor wouldn't renew my script. It is hard to buck the system not knowing if you're doing the right thing.

I am concerned about breast cancer so I try to use the minimum. It all comes down to this question for me: Would I rather be in pain with broken hip bones and spine or feel good and perhaps have to go thru breast cancer treatment?

I do have a green smoothie everyday with almond milk and yogurt for my calcium. I put 2 tablespoon of bone collagen in my coffee each morning. I take a probiotic and am getting into fermentation so my gut health has improved. Take K2 and D3 and a few other things so I have great hopes for the next scan...my scores are similiar to yours and have been getting better. I haven't broken any bones. Just started drinking silica water also which should help. Thanks for posting your results!

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby Ssa » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:54 am

Congratulations!!! Nice to know someone else turning bone loss around. I haven’t broken any bones either and very active. I turned 60 few months ago. My mom had already broken bones by the time she was my age. Probably by the time she was 55 actually. She had total hysterectomy in her 40s and never had any hormone replacement.

I was told years ago by an endocrinologist that women’s hormones were the least researched of any hormone. He said we were too complicated and there were only three medical books on endocrinology that even touched on women’s hormones. Don’t know about now but for long time women were not even included in other research studies of any kind because our hormones weren’t constant in a month and fearful of pregnancy.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby flowersisters » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:29 am

Hi LillyBritches, I just became a member and posting on boards is very foreign to me. I’ve had the unpleasant hobby of researching Alzheimer's disease for about 14 years. I watched Alzheimer's steal my loving mother from me for 12 years before she passed in 2018. I had to reach out to you as you appear to be the only other person in the universe who has learned about Dr. Rasgon's studies LOL. I would be interested to know if your doctor you referred to in your post was familiar with her studies. I have been on BHRT since I became menopausal. I am not on them for vanity reasons but solely to make an effort to protect my brain. I was pleasantly surprised at how wonderful they make me feel. I've also been told I look ten years younger than my age. I cannot believe that Dr. Natalie Rasgon of Stanford said “…However, hormone therapy effectively zeroed out ApoE4’s negative influence on telomere length over time. Carriers who remained on this regimen showed no evidence of telomere shortening.” and this statement appears to be ignored in the world of “let’s find a cure for Alzheimer’s disease”. I understand it was a smaller study, but this statement is huge. As you probably know after the NIH Women’s Health Initiative study of 2002 was discontinued, women were scared of using any form of hormone replacement therapy. It didn’t help that articles would refer to BHRT as HRT which was very confusing. I was in awe of your post about your mother being in basic good health up until age 86. If you are ApoE4/ApoE4, your mom had to have at least one ApoE4 gene and to hear she was in good health up until age 86 was wonderful to read. Was her memory intact at age 86? My mother’s body was in good health at age 86 due to an amazing 24 hour caretaker but her brain was not. Her memory and personality started to deteriorate at about 78 years of age.

I am not a scientist, but I've reviewed hundreds of studies on Alzheimer’s disease. I didn’t read them thoroughly but enough to get the gist of them. Based on the numerous studies I reviewed, I can’t help but wonder if having an ApoE4 gene, PEMT gene mutation and MTHFR gene might create a perfect storm for a person to be vulnerable to Alzheimer’s disease.

I have also read that the herpes virus has been found in many people with Alzheimer’s disease. After reviewing the studies, I am beginning to wonder if the herpes virus could possibly play a role in triggering the onset of Alzheimer’s disease. I’d be interested to know if you ever suffered from canker sores or cold sores when you were menstruating. It’s a known fact that some women are more vulnerable to canker sores prior to menstruation when their estrogen level drops. I recently realized that I have not had a canker sore since I went on BHRT six years ago and my hormones have been balanced. The Alzheimer’s Disease Association states that AD begins in women in their 60’s with symptoms to appear much later. The one thing all women in the world share in their 60’s is menopause and a drop in their estrogen levels. Maybe this drop in estrogen during menopause is the trigger which allows the herpes virus to begin to attack a vulnerable brain just like the drop in estrogen in a menstruating woman makes her vulnerable to an outbreak of a herpes canker sore?

I’ve learned that having a PEMT gene mutation can cause higher cholesterol as it has a negative effect on the liver. Another role of the PEMT gene is to turn estrogen into choline but having this mutation means your body cannot efficiently process estrogen into choline. I’ve read 90% of the population is choline deficient. Choline is necessary for the myelin sheaths in the brain to stay healthy and intact. If a woman has this mutation, I would think the woman would have an even more exaggerated choline deficiency when she becomes menopausal due to her low estrogen.

A Massachusetts General Hospital study found that “…amyloid beta the protein deposited into plaques in the brains of Alzheimer’s disease protects from the effects of herpes viruses commonly found in the brain.” This study reflects that the presence of amyloid beta in the brain would be a natural response to a herpes virus in the brain. However, something happens in an AD patient that their body cannot sufficiently get rid of the plaque in the brain and buildup occurs. Although it is not mentioned in the study, I’m wondering if the presence of a MTHFR mutation gene which is found in many AD patients could disrupt the detoxification process of the plaque. Having the presence of a MTHFR mutation means an individual cannot detox properly. Maybe the presence of a MTHFR mutation gene could be the reason plaque builds up since the body cannot detox adequately?

After I learned a had a PEMT gene mutation, I recently started on a choline supplement. My doctor and I were both surprised how my cholesterol level was lowered by 20 points from my prior lab work 6 months before, my inflammation level reduced by half to a healthy range and my homocysteine level is very good. I am also taking a few other supplements which I believe play a part in my good results as well.

Since you mentioned your cholesterol is high, I am wondering if you might have a PEMT gene mutation too. I also have hypothyroidism. You might want to learn about choline supplements to see if it’s something you would want to consider.
Sorry for the length of this post. I just wanted to put the puzzle pieces out there. I have no one to talk to about this and was surprised to find someone who also understood the importance of Dr. Rasgon’s studies.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby tryingtobehealthy » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:32 pm

Just wondering what bio-identical hormones people are taking? My doctor put me on pregnenelone..within a couple of months my oestradiol went from <60 (post-menopausal reading) to 162 pmol/L (follicular phase reading), and progesterone 0.7 (post-menopausal reading) to 15.6 nmol/L (luteal phase reading). My FSH came down from 75 to 39 IU/L.
LH is down from 34 to 29.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby PJD@4411 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:44 pm

flowersisters wrote:Hi LillyBritches, I just became a member and posting on boards is very foreign to me. I’ve had the unpleasant hobby of researching Alzheimer's disease for about 14 years. I watched Alzheimer's steal my loving mother from me for 12 years before she passed in 2018.

I am not a scientist, but I've reviewed hundreds of studies on Alzheimer’s disease. I didn’t read them thoroughly but enough to get the gist of them. Based on the numerous studies I reviewed, I can’t help but wonder if having an ApoE4 gene, PEMT gene mutation and MTHFR gene might create a perfect storm for a person to be vulnerable to Alzheimer’s disease.

I have no one to talk to about this and was surprised to find someone who also understood the importance of Dr. Rasgon’s studies.


Hello flowersisters,

Welcome to the ApoE4 forum. You will find this community very knowledgeable and supportive.

I personally am not familiar with Dr.Rasgon's studies but I will be diving in to do some research. You may not be a scientist but you are extremely knowledgeable about Alzheimer's disease and potential causes. Thank you for sharing all of this information with us.

I would like to share a few tips when navigating this site that you may find helpful. A great place to get started is by reviewing the Primer which has a wealth of information and was written by the physician that started this site.

The Wikki Page has multiple links pertaining to diet, nutrition, and lifestyle behaviors to promote cognitive health and much more!

We would love to learn more about you. If you are inspired to share more information about yourself this link will take you to Our Stories where you can post your story and you can learn about others in this amazing community.

Another way to stay connected is by joining the facebook group

Best of luck on your journey! I think you will find the information on this site and the support of this community very enlightening.

Again a warm welcome to you.
PJ
Think Positive Be Positive
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby JD2020 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:06 am

Apologies if this was already discussed in the previous 70 pages. I am new to HRT. What happens with sleep on the time off of progesterone? Why must we take a break? I have woken up like a rocket two mornings this week after about 5 1/2 hours of sleep, which makes for rough days.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy E4 Women

Postby slacker » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:34 pm

JD2020 wrote:Apologies if this was already discussed in the previous 70 pages. I am new to HRT. What happens with sleep on the time off of progesterone? Why must we take a break? I have woken up like a rocket two mornings this week after about 5 1/2 hours of sleep, which makes for rough days.


I doubt than anyone knows exactly what has been discussed in this gi-normous topic without reading it! Reading through it can be very helpful. If you search just this topic for "progesterone", it's only 16 pages. :D

I can offer my opinion. Oral progesterone is FDA approved for endometrial hyperplasia prevention (ie use with estrogen to avoid uterine cancer) taking 12 days every 4 weeks. Some practitioners will prescribe it this way. Others write it for daily use. My functional medicine MD has me take every night. If you are having trouble sleeping on the days you don't take the progesterone, you might want to talk to your practitioner about prescribing progesterone daily. I'm not sure there is a down side to this approach.
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