The dark side of curcumin

[Julie G]

LOL I'll play devil's advocate and share my anecdotal tale (N=1) of curcumin.

Several years ago, I was very ill with mast cell activation (MCA.) Cognitive decline was a part of my presentation. Others in the mast cell community were touting the amazing benefits of curcumin. Apparently, it greatly improved symptoms and provided relief from pain, fatigue, and cognitive decline. I gave it a whirl (had a few setbacks/allergic reactions with various brands) but eventually experienced PROFOUND relief from my symptoms. Widespread pain evaporated, fatigue lifted, my cognition cleared. I had no sense of being depressed before, but in retrospect I felt as if I were taking a powerful antidepressant. MCA is basically a non-IgE mediated systemic "allergic" response- INFLAMMATION plays a huge role. Curcumin targets inflammation. I would go so far as to say that no other supplement (before or since) has had as profound an impact on my symptoms than curcumin.

I carry a homozygous MAO-A mutation in my methylation. I'm very hesitant to blindly trust methylation advice, even provided by "experts." I'm also supposed to avoid sulphur containing foods. My diet is rich in many healthful colorful, sulfurous vegetables like broccoli, green & red cabbage, bok choy, cauliflower, garlic, onions, shallots, leeks, etc. and I feel great. Our understanding of tampering with methylation is still very new and unproven. N=1 trumps everything for me.

Here's some information regarding safety:
Therapeutic roles of curcumin: lessons learned from clinical trials.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23143785

Here's some advice specifically for E4 carriers that I follow daily. I take my DHA and bio-available curcumin (750mg) on an empty stomach prior to exercise. The combination of all 3 boosts BDNF.

Mary S. Easton UCLA Center for Alzheimer’s Disease Research
http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/Curcumin.html

Should I take DHA and curcumin together if I know I have the ApoE4 allele, making me at risk for Alzheimers? What form of DHA and how much?

Again clinical studies are necessary. Data suggest that subjects with E4 do not respond to DHA, which may be due to oxidation. It is possible that Curcumin or other antioxidants may enable ApoE4 to respond to DHA. A combination of pure DHA with fish oil would achieve a higher DHA to EPA ratio to avoid EPA competing for DHA incorporation into neuron membranes. The rationale for combining fish oil and DHA is that fish oil contains EPA, which may reduce risk for cardiovascular disease.

600-900 mg of DHA is recommended. Higher doses were used in the trial but there is saturation at 900 mg/day. One gram of fish oil has about 200 mg of DHA, so one could take 3-5 capules of fish oil. Or 2 capsules of Fish oil and 1 capsule of pure "algae" DHA. Fish oil impacts platelets, so watch for bruising and if on plavix, warfarin or related blood thinners, make sure to check clotting and adjust blood thinner appropriately.

None of this is proven by randomized controlled trials and has been subject to peer-review. I hope it gets that far because it seems to work for me

[circular]

I think this article raises some very important points that apply to the use of many supplements.

"For a drug to be safe, it must also be devoid of long-term toxicity". I don't see how this can be debated?

Even if not absorbed well, it could still have long-term affects on the gut and/or its biome. I'm not saying it does, but conceptually it's possible.

Also the point about different genotypes possibly having different reactions to it is good. It's not unlike the recent article retracting the LFHC advice and suggesting that eating saturated fat is fine ... we all said, "wait a minute here, E4s not so much!" So I think with any supplement we should be mindful of not having a double standard and assuming there are no genotypic differences in how the supplement affects the body and/or mind long term. Green tea could be another example, interacting with COMT genotypes. There must be countless.

There is also the good point in this article that many supplement studies look for the good effects and not the bad. They may not anything bad they're testing for, but that doesn't capture all the possibilities.

I think we can expect many in the medical community to criticize Dr. Bredesen's work, even if it is shown to improve cognition, because they will say we don't have LT safety studies on each and every supplement used. I'd take a working protocol myself over speculation of negative affects that aren't yet in the literature, but I don't think the cautions in this article should be dismissed. I think we need to stay hypercognizant of these caveats.

I guess I am basically a whole, healthy foods kind of a gal, but I do take my supplements ... Paradox rules!

[hellopeaches]

LOL I'll play devil's advocate and share my anecdotal tale (N=1) of curcumin.

I gave it a whirl (had a few setbacks/allergic reactions with various brands) but eventually experienced PROFOUND relief from my symptoms. Widespread pain evaporated, fatigue lifted, my cognition cleared. I had no sense of being depressed before, but in retrospect I felt as if I were taking a powerful antidepressant. MCA is basically a non-IgE mediated systemic "allergic" response- INFLAMMATION plays a huge role. Curcumin targets inflammation. I would go so far as to say that no other supplement (before or since) has had as profound an impact on my symptoms than curcumin.

-----

I was so excited to see this old post from you Julie and I have an important follow-up question. I have had the same experience with Curcumin (I'm taking Longvida 2000mg/day). I had no idea my inflammation was so bad, and no idea that taking it would have an antidepressant effect.

Unfortunately, I started to experience some insomnia, so I scaled back on the Curcumin to 1000-1500mg/day. Since then I haven't been able to recover those wonderful effects. I'm back up to the original dose of 2000mg/day, but I don't feel like I first did.

I'm wondering if you had that experience at all? Did the effect diminish over time, or have you continued to use Curcumin with the same wonderful results? Are there any resources you could recommend to help me learn more about how to optimize my Curcumin use (you mentioned the mast cell community - is there an active forum?)?

Thanks so much!

[cflegal]

Longvida and Theracurmin brands of curcumin share some similarities. They are both nanoparticulate formulations. Both are being studied at UCLA. The Longvida trial is scheduled to complete this year. Dr. Small's UCLA study reported last year (see other post) used 180 mg/day of Theracurmin. I have been using that dose for about 18 months. I have no side effects, definitely not insomnia. I think a prophylactic dose could be much less. My osteoarthritis pains have completely disappeared. A report on the effect of Theracurmin on osteoarthritis was published about a decade ago. Curcumin is a TNF alpha "blocker." Alzheimer''s and arthritis both intersect with TNF alpha. Enbrel is an older medication to treat rheumatoid arthritis that also acts through TNF alpha. A 2016 report reviewed 8.5 million cases of rheumatoid arthritis. Of those taking Enbrel (interacept) there was a roughly 1/3 lower percentage of Alzheimer's cases. Enbrel is acts through mTOR as do Curcumin and Rapamycin.