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WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
circular
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WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby circular » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:41 pm

http://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2015-06 ... mmune.html

The lymph system has no pump like the heart. Exercise and massage move lymph.

It'll be interesting to watch developments from this ...
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby Silverlining » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:55 am

Circ, it is CRAZY that this has just been discovered. Reminds me that the more we know, the more we don't know. When I saw the graphic, my first thought was "wow, this is my daughter and me". As you might remember, I have ehlers danlos (like yourself?) and recently I've begun to experience intermittent, mild occipital neuralgia. My poor daughter is disabled due to crippling pain from this condition. We both have "low lying cerebellar tonsils", but no diagnostic chiari. The additional lymphatic vessels in the graphic highlighted in green follows exactly the pain path my daughter experiences. Although, I realize the highlighted significance of this discovery is directed toward neurological disease/dysfunction, I plan to explore this further to see if there is insight to be gleaned with regard to helping my daughter and her painful condition.

Guess this wiki page will have to be changed lol! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby GenePoole0304 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:27 am

read that last night...

here is another report. It opens up other avenues of research.

just one part of report

"Alzheimer's, Autism, MS and Beyond

The unexpected presence of the lymphatic vessels raises a tremendous number of questions that now need answers, both about the workings of the brain and the diseases that plague it. For example, take Alzheimer's disease. "In Alzheimer's, there are accumulations of big protein chunks in the brain," Kipnis said. "We think they may be accumulating in the brain because they're not being efficiently removed by these vessels." He noted that the vessels look different with age, so the role they play in aging is another avenue to explore. And there's an enormous array of other neurological diseases, from autism to multiple sclerosis, that must be reconsidered in light of the presence of something science insisted did not exist."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 052915.php

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby Wondering » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:21 pm

This really brings up a question for people like me who have impairments to our lymph systems (in my case, as a consequence of breast cancer surgery). My lymph system gets backed up pretty easily (from overuse, elevation, vibration...) and doesn't respond to my own attempts to encourage drainage - I end up going to a lymph drainage specialist to get things flowing again. Although the surgical damage was done to the area of my breast and underarm, the lymph system is connected all over the body, and can easily get backed up across my back or even down a leg. Makes me wonder about the drainage from my brain, and how much the periodic "backups" may be impacting that...
E3/E4, both parents have LOAD

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby circular » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:42 pm

Wondering, this is what I was going to bring up here. It's a little premature for my experience with lymph drainage therapy, but nice to know someone else here has experience with it, although I'm so sorry for the reason :-( (((W)))

Recently I was thinking about my bad problems with histamine overload (=brain fog, fatigue, flushing, anxiety, exercise intolerance and so on), and I got to wondering about assisting my lymph, that maybe it was sluggish. I can't exercise it. I knew that massage therapists will claim that massage helps the lymph move, but I wondered if there was something more specific. I googled lymph massage in my area and came up with someone specialized in lymph drainage therapy (which I'd never heard of) and craniosacral therapy. I know there are a lot of people who will say these aren't based in science and flakes flock to such modalities, but I thought well it can't hurt, and what with the new discovery of how extensive the lymph system is in the brain, it might be very good for helping detox the brain in general.

So, I had my first session two days ago. These things happened. I'd read about them beforehand in the long list of things that can happen/benefits, but really hadn't fixated on them, so each came as a surprise:

    First urination afterward had an odor which mine never does, indicating extra waste was flushed out.

    I looked in the mirror and immediately noticed a whole layer of puffiness in my face, chest, arms, legs … was gone.

    I went outside and realized my whole body felt lighter and my brain/mind more peaceful than I can remember in some years.

    The next day I had a whole head type headache, a type I almost never get (toxins moving around?). I did my own little lymph massage (neck, face, head) and it went away.

    I woke up today and my sinus congestion had shifted. Whereas it is always equal on both sides, the left side was completely clear and the right side completely blocked.

    Also, in spite of the blocked right sinus, I feel fabulous today!!! Like, wow! Some histamine has returned to my sinuses and head, in part because the air in the dang hair salon is so toxic, but my body continues to feel lighter/unburdened.

I go again in two weeks (a little longer than she wanted but our schedules didn't obey) and will feel my way along. I'm hoping if I notice consistent improvement that I can get to once a month for maintenance, or better yet, once a year, or ...

I'm also hoping this isn't a mirage that will vanish this afternoon! Was going to wait to see about consistency before posting anything about it.

So far I think there is clearly something to this as a unique modality that is not the same as getting a massage, and while it's unfortunate to maybe need to have someone help, and at a cost like so many things, I'm thrilled to pursue this and hopeful it may assist overall brain health too.

I am sure the lymph backups affect our brains. I just don't see anymore how they can't.

Wondering, is it possible that you might benefit from once a month treatments, or something similar? Maybe negotiate a discount?

How does aerobic exercise work for you for lymph drainage? I'm also hoping if this works well enough for me my exercise intolerance will improve and more aerobic exercise will start to take over from the treatments. I'm sure we're all different.

I also wonder, if you went to another LDT practitioner if you might get some fresh wisdom that could help. Sometimes I think it's good to try practitioners for new perspectives and experience, even when I really like one I work with.

I would love to hear your experience with LDT. I gather it's often used along with breast cancer treatments and pre- and post-surgery. In fact, I was thinking possibly it should be added to our surgery for e4s thread, but I don't have enough experience with it yet.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby Juliegee » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:51 pm

I'm delighted with your improvements, Circ. :D Keep us posted on your progress. This discovery feels HUGE for our population and may help explain WHY exercise is so helpful for us.

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby circular » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:28 pm

Thanks Juliegee, I'm hopeful it may be a great tool, but it could get expensive if it needs to be constant. It's early days in my exploration, but I have a feeling that while exercise does help move lymph, that for some it may not be enough to remove all stagnant areas. I'm not sure. The gal I saw said she works on athletes who come monthly for lymph tuneups (my word). I think it's possible that LDT might even enhance the brain/lymph clearing benefits of exercise and vice versa, and given that exercise itself generates additional metabolic trash it could be something to consider or experiment with.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby SusanJ » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:55 pm

Circ, maybe find a good yoga instructor? There are several poses that drain lymph (including legs up the wall), not overly strenuous and might help once you get the flow going with the lymph drainage. My yoga instructor always reminds us to drink lots of water after poses that affect lymph.

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby circular » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:18 am

SusanJ thanks for the tip. I wish I could still do yoga. I used to do headstands and handstands and … I stopped years ago because I was already so flexible. It wasn't a challenge and I realized I needed strength, not flexibility. As time went on my ligaments got more lax and I got dx with the EDS hypermobile type and if I did those poses now I'd get injured. I do have scads of PT exercises I do, both land and water, and I love to walk and am a fast walker, so the movement is there, although I'm limited due to the exercise intolerance and can't get to the aerobic level/higher heart rate yet. I do inversions over an exercise ball to get blood to my head, at least once a day and trying to remember to do that twice. But I'm glad you mention yoga for others too because it has so many uses. I also sometimes do mini sessions of chi gong, tai chi and the like.

I think it's instructive that I already had plenty of movement to move my lymph and it wasn't working. It appears the lymph has stayed very congested and contributes to limiting my exercise tolerance (? - still exploring this). I think that even exercisers of whatever type could have areas of chronic lymph stagnation (to be confirmed).

The LDT seems to be the most direct influence on the lymph system. While identifying the stagnant areas it also helps get the lymph flowing in the proper directions in the different areas of the body so the fluid can get the wastes out along the lymphatic system pathways. I noticed the LDT goes in directions opposite other types of massage and plan to ask her, given people say massage helps move lymph, what affect it may have that it could often be moving it backwards!?

I think it may be a very good adjunct not replaceable by other methods, especially for subcategories of people, e.g. those with sleep problems and/or who don't sleep on their side so aren't clearing brain toxins well at night, those who have long standing emotional and stress blockages, those who may be taking a lot of supplements and/or prescriptions …

All that said, at this point I'm talking about the big picture of lymph therapy rather than fine points that might be found online, how it's done, whether all of its concepts are based in strong evidence etc. I've seen some things that make me question aspects of the world it comes out of. It definitely falls in the category of "frontier" it seems, along with crania-sacral therapy, but I don't want that to influence whether or not is helps me, and I want to keep it to science and personal experience, not whether or not cells have individual consciousness (although that could be an interesting thread in the Other category, a la Depak Chopra etc).

Gotta run, I seem to be very verbose this morning!!!
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: WOW Discovery Brain/Immune Connection Vessels

Postby Gilgamesh » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:15 am

Fascinating disucssion.

SusanJ wrote:Circ, maybe find a good yoga instructor? There are several poses that drain lymph (including legs up the wall).
Are there any other "things one can do at home" to do an informal test of the possible/likely effectiveness of lymph drainage before going to a possibly expensive expert? I'd like to get an idea of whether this might be helpful to me.

GB

P.S. See discussion here, also.


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