Lectins and AD - Exploring a Potential but Unproven Connection

[circular]

Being rather zen in my views, I think paradox is behind everything, so it's a matter of where one is off how they need to turn the dial. I am always wondering how good it is to go after amyloid beat aggressively if it might also be doing some good. This is a digression, but I almost think this group needs to advocate for brain scans for those who already know they are e4, to assess their amyloid beta and brain glucose metabolism. Naturally some cases will seem to need treatment based on presentation alone, but the images would be very helpful as a guide.

For lectins I suppose it's the adiponectin and inflammatory markers Dr. Gundry tests that serve as a guide, and if those markers are under control, especially the inflammation markers, then the body's response to lectins is too.

[GenePoole0304]

In this thread https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic ... 015#p16015 Buteyko breathing is discussed. This is conditioning yourself to increase serum CO2 levels. Buteyko created the "Control Pause" (CP) http://www.buteyko.com/practical/elemen ... ments.html as a way to measure serum CO2

Sit straight without crossing your legs and breathe comfortably and steady.
After an exhalation pinch your nose (optional).
Hold your breath and start stopwatch.
When you feel a slight discomfort resume your breathing and note the time.

When I started this, my CP was about 15 seconds. After working at it for six months, it is about 25 seconds. Adding those 10 seconds took a lot of persistence. I do notice that I almost never have to open my mouth to breathe, even in activity (like hard skiing) at 12,000'. I jump rope at 150-160 RPM, breathing though my nose. Every once in a while I have to open my mouth to breathe in activity, but I'm still not breathing hard.

In "Normal breathing: the key to vital health" by Artour Rakimov p228:

CHV (chronic hyperventilation) generally leads to decreased GI perfusion, hypoxia and slower peristalsis. The time required to empty stomach after an ordinary meal can increase up to 2-3 or more hours, depending on current CP, meal and other factors. This effect (slower digestion when breathing is heavier) is known even to healthy people who may occasionally have infection, flue, fever or other stressful state with CHV and low CPs. During such times, appetite is suppressed, and desire to eat, for example, fats and proteins are greatly reduced due to their burden on the GI system causing more stress and increased HV (hyperventillation). At such times, we drink water or juices and may snack on fruits.
Very large CPs greatly facilitate digestive abilities of the human organism due to, for example, increased blood supply and oxygenation of the GI organs. The immune system becomes more sensitive and can effectively fight pathogens in the GI tract so that they cannot attach themselves and remain in the GI tract. This leads to normalization of the flora in the digestive tract.

It was mentioned by Doctor Buteyko that people with over 90 s CP could eat almost nails. Probably, he implied increased digestive abilities of the human organism in relation to roughage (like bark, leaves, flowers, etc.). Ancient hatha yoga manuscripts noticed that hatha masters (over 3 min CP) would not get intestinal worms since their eggs would be digested in the stomach.

I do recall from Ayerveda (East Indian traditional medicine) that accomplished meditators were supposed to be able to digest anything. I'm a long way from a CP of 90 seconds or 3 minutes, but another interesting thought. I wondering, can you change your reaction to the lectins possibly through increasing serum CO2?

This Buddhist monk describes his experience adding the breathing exercises to his practice. http://www.buteykoscotland.co.uk/buddhistmeditation.htm His experiences mirror those of accomplished meditators. I wish my progress would be as fast as his!

Basically it is stimulation of the vagus nerve which will have a profound effect on the whole bodies function.
Can't see how it relates to lectins but maybe you are saying it affects the immune system and therefore with proper breathing one is less affected by lectins??

[GenePoole0304]

I just stumbled across this (again) last night and began to consider how lectins may BENEFIT us via hormesis... Perhaps the notion of complete elimination or avoidance isn't necessarily optimal? No doubt, individual variation and health status would be key drivers.

Fruits and Vegetables are Trying to Kill You
http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence/fr ... o-kill-you

Yes of course but first one has to reduce ones sensitivity by starting with small amounts and then you can eat all the peanut butter you desire!
But if one has an over reactive system then your threshold for peanut butter would be much lower and 1 tsp maybe your limit whereas your friend will be eating through the jar and feeling fine. Some claim it is a matter of time before ones response becomes normal. So it could also be a gut mediated response where one has to work on a good diet so your gut bugs can take over the peanut jar digestion job without causing a lot of gas protests or worse.

[SusanJ]

Gene, I totally agree. I can eat much differently now, after working on gut health, than I could 3 years ago. And my tolerance to certain foods has a fine line. A few beans in a bowl of vegetable soup I can handle. A big plate of beans and rice, not so much.

[Gilgamesh]

My own experience has seen two correlations:

1. Shift from lots of conventionally cooked beans (8-10-hour soak, toss soak water, then boil at sea level till fairly soft) to sprouting beans (though not all the beans in a batch will sprout -- 80% of black beans, 98% or so of lentils) for 2-3 days <***> correlates with being able to reduce sulfasalazine from ~1500 mg. / day to around 800-1000 mg. / day without Crohn's symptoms.

2. Shift from above soaking of beans to zero beans, and radically increased nut consumption, almost always soaked for the google-suggested times, on the long side, though, and, in the case of almonds, "sprouted" after the soak for 12-20 hours (same with sunflower seeds) <***> correlates with being able to reduce sulfasalazine to zero (just got to zero -- fingers crossed I really won't have symptoms...).

BUT: I've probably made other changes I didn't note.

It might not be the lectins -- could be the phytates or some other antinutrients.

I also quit all grains 1.5-2 or so years ago, and the effect of that may be very delayed, such that that's the main player here.

Many grains of salt with G's N=1 here. Still, some sort of anti-nutrient or toxin seems no longer to be present, and my gut is definitely happier. Does that mean I'm at a reduced risk of AD? I don't know. But I'm intrigued and would love to see Gundry or someone do a pilot study or something.

G

[Stavia]

G you also increased your calories and your fat %. Too many variables plus IBD does wax and wane.
But I'm very happy for you.

[Gilgamesh]

S, yes, lots of variables. But I'd done energy-intake experiments before with no effect. Pretty sure it's not that. Could be the increased fat, but I'd also done some variations there. I'm 80% or so confident that the improvement has to do wiith anti-nutrient removal from diet (I've also done a few "challenges" to confirm that). BUT, 1) I don't know whether it's lectins per se, and, to the thread: 2) I still would like to see some more formal study of lectins and AD.

Gundry seems trustworthy. Could we -- or George or another of his patients -- encourage him at least to facilitate a citizen sci. project of some kind? The results woudn't be perfectly robust, but at least we'd have more than his word, which would be good for the wider public who haven't gotten to know and trust him.

It would just be a matter of looking at some biomarkers, or doing some cog. testing. I'd be curious how he would react to such a proposal.

G

[circular]

Dr Gundry's view FWIW is that everyone is sensitive to lectins - at least the bad ones (I think this has been shown in studies of gluten as one example?), but clearly some are moreso than others, for a variety of reasons he said he's not smart enough to figure out yet but would include genes, gut barrier integrity and so on. I hope I'm recalling his perspective on this right, quite sure I am. He indicated that after a time healing my gut barrier I may tolerate them better.

[Tincup]

Dr Gundry's view FWIW is that everyone is sensitive to lectins - at least the bad ones (I think this has been shown in studies of gluten as one example?), but clearly some are moreso than others, for a variety of reasons he said he's not smart enough to figure out yet but would include genes, gut barrier integrity and so on. I hope I'm recalling his perspective on this right, quite sure I am. He indicated that after a time healing my gut barrier I may tolerate them better.

Circ, had read the transcript of the Gundry interview, but finally had time on a long drive today to listen to the audio. I concur with your summary. Lectins are everywhere, his starting point is to eat things that humans (or primates) ate pre-agriculture that are not from America (assuming only ~500 years to adapt to American foods like nightshades for those of European descent). This starting point is that our systems have created ways to deal with the lectins from leaves & etc our type has been eating since long before agriculture. He also noted that the rodent studies on this are likely not valid as rodents are built as "grain predators." So their systems know how to deal with grain lectins.

[Gilgamesh]

Dr Gundry's view FWIW is that everyone is sensitive to lectins - at least the bad ones [...].

That's what I've gathered. But there are lots of claims here: the connection to AD and/or dementia, adiponectin as an important biomarker, etc. I think it would be great if one his patients would propose to him a simple citizen sci. project to gather more data.

G