Supplement side effects

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
Tincup
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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby Tincup » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:17 pm

Susan,

If your hubby has a Polar that records r to r (i.e. beat to beat) this is ideal. Most will not. Averaged data doesn't show ectopic beats. If he has a Polar H7 bluetooth transmitter strap, you can get a smartphone app that will record beat to beat. I've been monitoring for skipped beats (PAC's & PVC's) for 11 years 'cause I have afib. Fortunately well controlled. If you want more detail, I can provide. If you do record, turn off all the smoothing. You are looking for the anomalies. One difficulty with this is sampling during exercise can provoke erroneous spikes or drops in the data. This is cause of the strap movement. Need to make sure the strap contacts are wet and the strap is snug.

For me, excess calcium was an issue. I control my afib with potassium, magnesium & taurine. The potassium, as a supplement, is really not that important. Mag is the big hitter here. It will allow your body to use the potassium it has effectively. I take an obscene amount - 4.8g/day currently + the mag threonate. The mag threonate has a tiny amount of mag (~210mg), in my world. I can see no difference whether I take it or not. The amount (4.8g) I take is to bowel tolerance. In any case I had great afib control for years, sometimes going 2 years between episodes, which I would convert with a med, Flecainide. The conversion usually happened in an hour or two. Then I went through a divorce. My formerly stellar control deteriorated significantly. I thought it was stress and that remodeling had occurred so it would be impossible to get back to my former "good" control. It took me 15 months to figure out it was excess calcium as I'd been stress eating large quantities (wheels) of cheese. Once I went back through the literature, I realized the calcium I was consuming in the cheese was material. I quit the cheese and my control immediately went back to what it had been. I have had once episode since May of 2013, again converted in an hour. So my time out of rhythm is minuscule. Most sources talk about a 2:1 or 1:1 cal:mag ratio. Mine needs to be very different, and I can't explain why. I know when my electrolytes are in balance, I have almost no afib risk. I still have a small number of PAC's & PVC's, however these are benign.

As to the osteopenia, I'd add at least 100 mcg/day of K2 as MK7, since this "tells the calcium where to go."
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SusanJ
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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby SusanJ » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:20 am

George, thanks for the clue on calcium. I am dropping it, per Stavia's suggestion and we'll see where it goes. I'm pretty close to the amount on K2, so we'll see where I land with no calcium and without the latest supplements.

Thanks to all of you for hacking my supplements! What a great group we have in our forum!

I encourage others to post questions and/or concerns about supplements. It's how we learn what works.

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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby ABrain4Me » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:53 pm

Susan-- if above suggestions don't give you results, I would look at cutting back on curcumin. I have an allergic reaction to curcumin that elevates my heart rate and gives me insomnia. Same reaction with turmeric.

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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby Julie G » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:29 pm

Susan, when I was having debilitating PVCs, I was taking unopposed calcium. I also had an unDXed RBC magnesium deficiency. I’m currently taking 2 grams of magnesium nightly and just added a tiny dose (144 mg) of Magnesium L-Threonate, per Dr. Bredesen’s recommendations with the goal of increasing that to 3x a day. My RBC level is now in the lower normal reference range. If your heart rhythm abnormalities involve any sort of tachycardia, I highly doubt the magnesium is to blame. It has the opposite effect.

I’ve taken the ALCAR & Citicholine for years. Citicholine definitely had a stimulatory effect on me and may be affecting your heart rhythm. Another thing to consider might be your salt intake. Has that recently changed? My Mother’s kidney function numbers were declining and she recently began to watch her sodium, causing her tachycardia to escalate. Once she resumed her normal levels, it resolved.

Re. bone density, read my experience here. Replacing calcium with magnesium and targeting optimal Vitamin D, A & K levels reversed my osteopenia. I think Stavia’s recommendations are on point

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SusanJ
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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby SusanJ » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:36 pm

Thanks, J. I'm going to drop citicoline for now - it was my primary suspect anyway. No changes in salt and RBC magnesium was right at the high end for my last test.

I'll also track my Vitamin A intake for a while. It would be great to have better numbers at my next bone scan.

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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby circular » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:55 am

Then there's the issue of possible undetected side effects. Three things come to mind:

1) Early mention on this forum that people who take supplements have higher incidences of aberrant liver blood work than those taking pharmaceuticals. I believe Stavia clarified that while she sees this a lot, it's mainly the non-vitamin, non-mineral types supplements, like herbs, that have a lot of components?

2) I've had a hum in the back of my mind for some time about this issue of possibly over supplementing with antioxidants (as opposed to food intakes) interfering with the body's defense mechanisms against the cancer cells we all carry:

'Do Antioxidants Promote Health or Fuel Cancer?'

You might think that while antioxidants are a bad idea for cancer patients, they should help healthy people by preventing DNA damage that can trigger malignancies in the first place. Unfortunately, cancer turns out to be more prevalent than once thought: Many of us have undiagnosed micromalignancies that the immune system and other defenses keep in check. As a result, megadoses of antioxidants — in pills, not pomegranates — might be risky for everyone.
http://www.statnews.com/2015/11/05/anti ... te-cancer/

Because of this issue I don't take high doses of any of my supplements that are antioxidants, never more than the smallest dose suggested and often less because I'm small. I take them for other specific, hoped-for benefits while working to keep my dietary antioxidants high.

3) Studies done on supplements are usually looking at just one, or a few?, endpoints. They don't take into account the many biochemical pathways the supplement contents can take that have different endpoints, so we don't know what else is happening and whether it's good or bad, even if we think a study on one or several endpoints is favorable. Is that the right wording Stavia?
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Stavia
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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby Stavia » Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:14 pm

Circ, deep thinking. Here my answers to the two questions

Firstly I don't see a lot of supplement side effects because my specific 5500 patient population doesn't take a lot of supplements. But yes I have seen cases of liver damage with supplements that are herbal. My small country of 4 million people (a better sample size) keeps a database of side effects of meds and supplements and the latter is now the commonest cause of drug-or-supplement-induced significant liver damage.

And correct, RCT studies on supplements are usually small, short and look at surrogate end points. Which aren't the endpoints we actually need, we want AD and death. Other larger studies are observational (like the Women's Health) and have their own issues.

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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby JulieAnnie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:25 pm

Watch out for supplementing with L-methionine according to the following study. I cut back snacking on Brazil nuts as they have a very high level.

Is L-methionine a trigger factor for Alzheimer’s-like neurodegeneration?: Changes in Aβ oligomers, tau phosphorylation, synaptic proteins, Wnt signaling and behavioral impairment in wild-type mice.

Tapia-Rojas, C; Lindsay, CB; Montecinos-Oliva, C; Arrazola, MS; Retamales, RM; Bunout, D; Hirsch, S; Inestrosa, NC

Background: L-methionine, the principal sulfur-containing amino acid in proteins, plays critical roles in cell physiology as an antioxidant and in the breakdown of fats and heavy metals. Previous studies suggesting the use of L-methionine as a treatment for depression and other diseases indicate that it might also improve memory and propose a role in brain function. However, some evidence indicates that an excess of methionine can be harmful and can increase the risk of developing Type-2 diabetes, heart diseases, certain types of cancer, brain alterations such as schizophrenia, and memory impairment. Results: Here, we report the effects of an L-methionine-enriched diet in wild-type mice and emphasize changes in brain structure and function. The animals in our studypresented 1) higher levels of phosphorylated tau protein, 2) increased levels of amyloid-β (Aβ)-peptides, including the formation of Aβ oligomers, 3) increased levels of inflammatory response,4) increased oxidative stress, 5) decreased level of synaptic proteins, and 6) memory impairment and loss. We also observed dysfunction of the Wnt signaling pathway. Conclusion: Taken together, the results of our study indicate that an L-methionine-enriched diet causes neurotoxic effects in vivo and might contribute to the appearance of Alzheimer’s-like neurodegeneration. Electronic supplementary material: The online version of this article (doi:10.1186/s13024-015-0057-0) contains supplementary material, which is available to authorized users.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26590557?dopt=Citation

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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby GenePoole0304 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:47 pm

JulieAnnie wrote:Watch out for supplementing with L-methionine according to the following study. I cut back snacking on Brazil nuts as they have a very high level.

Is L-methionine a trigger factor for Alzheimer’s-like neurodegeneration?: Changes in Aβ oligomers, tau phosphorylation, synaptic proteins, Wnt signaling and behavioral impairment in wild-type mice.

Tapia-Rojas, C; Lindsay, CB; Montecinos-Oliva, C; Arrazola, MS; Retamales, RM; Bunout, D; Hirsch, S; Inestrosa, NC

Background: L-methionine, the principal sulfur-containing amino acid in proteins, plays critical roles in cell physiology as an antioxidant and in the breakdown of fats and heavy metals. Previous studies suggesting the use of L-methionine as a treatment for depression and other diseases indicate that it might also improve memory and propose a role in brain function. However, some evidence indicates that an excess of methionine can be harmful and can increase the risk of developing Type-2 diabetes, heart diseases, certain types of cancer, brain alterations such as schizophrenia, and memory impairment. Results: Here, we report the effects of an L-methionine-enriched diet in wild-type mice and emphasize changes in brain structure and function. The animals in our studypresented 1) higher levels of phosphorylated tau protein, 2) increased levels of amyloid-β (Aβ)-peptides, including the formation of Aβ oligomers, 3) increased levels of inflammatory response,4) increased oxidative stress, 5) decreased level of synaptic proteins, and 6) memory impairment and loss. We also observed dysfunction of the Wnt signaling pathway. Conclusion: Taken together, the results of our study indicate that an L-methionine-enriched diet causes neurotoxic effects in vivo and might contribute to the appearance of Alzheimer’s-like neurodegeneration. Electronic supplementary material: The online version of this article (doi:10.1186/s13024-015-0057-0) contains supplementary material, which is available to authorized users.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26590557?dopt=Citation


excess of methionine is the important phrase so casual eating of Brazil nuts is ok just don't over do the protein either.
You must remember that were looking for a reaction so where fed excess.

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Re: Supplement side effects

Postby Stavia » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:07 pm

Brazil nuts contain variable amounts of selenium. Gilgamesh found a study that showed it's sometimes quite high per nut. Selenium is toxic in high amounts. I never have more than 7 a week - but I try to have one most days as my country's soil is deficient in selenium and I hardly ever eat imported food.


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