Ketogenic Diet: Transitioning, Experiences, Reasons, Cautions ...

[Robhypno]

I was intrigued by Dr Bredesen keto flex diet and it's suggested health benefits, particularly AD. Also he mentioned that there are difficulties for E4 types reaching and attaining ketosis.

I had cut out gluten for 4 weeks now and followed the keto flex principles past 3 weeks and including 16/8 fast.

I've found it relatively easy, even though I work 12 hour plus shifts and only 30 minutes meal break in that time. My keto results were poor and I suspected it was because of our tricky E4 genes.

I decided to go for the full keto diet as well as keeping 16/8 fast to see if it make a difference or admit the frustration of our gene.

7 days in full keto diet. My keto reading is 1,1 so I'm over the moon that I've hit ketosis and now need to maintain it for a prolonged period to ensure I become keto adapted.

So genes aren't necessarily our destiny

As a side note, although never extremely over weight the body fat is melting. My stubborn body is shrinking so much I thought I was ill haha. Honestly, it's going all over my body, I believe it's a combination of dumping gluten, reducing carbs and the fasting.

I'm getting my blood done in a couple of weeks to get a bench mark for cholesterol. As a HCP I'm still got baggage about high fat intake. Also thyroid etc

[Julie G]

Congrats! I'm curious if you've noticed any changes to your cognition. When I became keto-adapted, I was pleasantly surprised with the steadiness of my fuel supply accompanied by a cognitive clarity.

I was intrigued by Dr Bredesen keto flex diet and it's suggested health benefits, particularly AD. Also he mentioned that there are difficulties for E4 types reaching and attaining ketosis.

The problem Dr. Bredesen refers to in our population is not with our ability to achieve ketosis, but rather with our higher cholesterol especially when using saturated fat. Out of an abundance of caution, he recommends that we minimize it and switch to healthy unsaturated fats: high polypohenol EVOO, avocados, olives, fatty fish, nuts, etc. That said, he aknowledegs that high LDL-C is a problem only in the context of high inflammatory markers, glycemic markers, and oxidized LDL. Most here carefully manage those biomarkers.

As a HCP I'm still got baggage about high fat intake. Also thyroid etc

I hear you and suspect that's behind your weight loss. I was the same when I started. It truly felt like jumping off a cliff; abandoning decades of low fat medical advice. Your thyroid likely will slow down a bit as well; cleaner fuel, idling more slowly. Best of luck with your upcoming labs. Keep us posted on your journey.

[Scott7]

To Julie's question regarding perceived cognitive changes following keto adaptation, allow me to jump in and say that I've noted a nice improvement in my cognition after six months on keto, both objectively (e.g., improved NYT crossword completion times) and subjectively (e.g., seeming to better hold the threads of mental to-do lists). Though, one confounder to this perception is that I've also started taking a whole lot of vitamins (a la Bredesen) during this time (approx. starting three months ago), and yes, I have to say I've noted further cognitive improvement after the supplementation increase, although that might also be the keto effects continuing to accrue.

Critical keto success factors for me (47 yr old, 165 lbs, 4/4 male with near-daily one-hour sweaty cardio sessions):

(1) Intake of 3 or so heaping teaspoons of unrefined sea salt per day (dissolved in water and on food. I use Celtic brand.) No, it doesn't really raise your BP unless you're a salt-sensitive hypertensive (me: 112/70 as measured by a cardiologist in August).
(2) Intake of magnesium in the range of 400-600 mg/day, in both mg-malate and mg-threonine forms (loose stool, too much; calf cramps, too little).
(3) Ample hydration (2.5-3.0 liters/day).
(4) I use a mix of carnivore alternated with shellfish protein and EVOO (the latter a la Gundry). Interestingly, my lipid labs are better in some ways when I focus more on the carnivore (better HDL, lower trigs (and more LDL than I would like either way)). I have at least two egg yolks every day (either raw or gently cooked).
(5) I measure keto success by (a) the amazing way I feel (better than ever in my life); (b) simply being in a steady state of ketosis (as evidenced by urinary ketones), rather than any particular ketone target; and (c) MOST OF ALL: a rock-bottom fasting insulin score (which seems to the most important thing we E4s can do).

[GLS18]

To Julie's question regarding perceived cognitive changes following keto adaptation, allow me to jump in and say that I've noted a nice improvement in my cognition after six months on keto, both objectively (e.g., improved NYT crossword completion times) and subjectively (e.g., seeming to better hold the threads of mental to-do lists). Though, one confounder to this perception is that I've also started taking a whole lot of vitamins (a la Bredesen) during this time (approx. starting three months ago), and yes, I have to say I've noted further cognitive improvement after the supplementation increase, although that might also be the keto effects continuing to accrue.

Critical keto success factors for me (47 yr old, 165 lbs, 4/4 male with near-daily one-hour sweaty cardio sessions):

(1) Intake of 3 or so heaping teaspoons of unrefined sea salt per day (dissolved in water and on food. I use Celtic brand.) No, it doesn't really raise your BP unless you're a salt-sensitive hypertensive (me: 112/70 as measured by a cardiologist in August).
(2) Intake of magnesium in the range of 400-600 mg/day, in both mg-malate and mg-threonine forms (loose stool, too much; calf cramps, too little).
(3) Ample hydration (2.5-3.0 liters/day).
(4) I use a mix of carnivore alternated with shellfish protein and EVOO (the latter a la Gundry). Interestingly, my lipid labs are better in some ways when I focus more on the carnivore (better HDL, lower trigs (and more LDL than I would like either way)). I have at least two egg yolks every day (either raw or gently cooked).
(5) I measure keto success by (a) the amazing way I feel (better than ever in my life); (b) simply being in a steady state of ketosis (as evidenced by urinary ketones), rather than any particular ketone target; and (c) MOST OF ALL: a rock-bottom fasting insulin score (which seems to the most important thing we E4s can do).

Welcome to the community Scott7!

Thank you for sharing your wonderful progress with us. We all learn from each other and it is helpful to know what has been working best for you. It is evident that you have tremendous commitment to your health. Congratulations on the cognitive improvements. As you mention, there are many factors that contribute to cognitive health and to our overall health and well-being. Adhering to a Keto food plan, introducing supplementation, and maintaining a rigorous exercise schedule can all be beneficial in the process. I'm curious as to whether you have also incorporated any type of relaxation technique, such as meditation, breath work, qigong, etc.,

You will find a great deal of support and a wealth of resources on this site. The Primer, beautifully compiled by practitioner and member Stavia, covers a wide range of topics. For tips on navigating the site, you can go here: How To Get The Most From The ApoE4.Info Website

We would love to hear more about your journey and we invite you to share your story. If you would like to do so, please visit the Our Stories forum.

Looking forward to your contributions and a very warm welcome!

[Scott7]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I've been enjoying the site's wealth of information and even more so reading about members' personal experiences. It's a reassuring and detailed map for navigating these tricky waters, and I'm glad I've found it.

As to other practices I use, yes, I do some mediation (30 min, 3-4 times per week; I would like to get this up to every day). I also start every day with a 45-minute walk, which is both relaxing and energizing for me. I make a conscious effort to avoid negative stimulation or environments (no sad or scary movies, political TV, etc.). And I try to get 8-hours sleep every night (an ongoing battle). All things I would suggest to anyone, with the only difference now being having learned of my E4 status, I have yet another impetus.

[GLS18]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I've been enjoying the site's wealth of information and even more so reading about members' personal experiences. It's a reassuring and detailed map for navigating these tricky waters, and I'm glad I've found it.

As to other practices I use, yes, I do some mediation (30 min, 3-4 times per week; I would like to get this up to every day). I also start every day with a 45-minute walk, which is both relaxing and energizing for me. I make a conscious effort to avoid negative stimulation or environments (no sad or scary movies, political TV, etc.). And I try to get 8-hours sleep every night (an ongoing battle). All things I would suggest to anyone, with the only difference now being having learned of my E4 status, I have yet another impetus.

You are very welcome! Our genes only account for 25% and you are living proof of the power of lifestyle factors in taking charge of the remaining 75% of our health and wellness. Sleep (quantity and quality), exercise & movement, nutrition/diet, relaxation, positive relationships and a focus on our strengths have tremendous benefit on how we feel physically and emotionally.

If you would like to continue the conversation, what is going well with your sleep hygiene and what do you find challenging? You are certainly not alone in your "ongoing battle" obtaining 8 hours of sleep:)

[Fiver]

Hello Scott7. We are age / genotype twins. Glad you've found habits that work well for you. Welcome to the site.

[Scott7]

Thanks, Fiver. Good to hear from an age/genotype twin.

Thanks GLS18. That's what I'm hoping: it's less the hand you're dealt, but rather how you play it.

Sleep-wise, I feel like I'm on top of things like room darkening, temperature and sound control, and set bed and awakening times, though I could do better with screen-time management. My challenge lies in early morning awakening (3-4 a.m.), when I awake or experience disturbed sleep. I can fall back asleep, but my sleep quality is low for a few hours it seems. Around 5:30 or 6, my body seems to capitulate, and I fall back into a deeper sleep. When I have these kinds of nights, I awake in the morning feeling tired, sluggish, and generally unrested, which seems to affect my functioning for most of the day.

This seems to have gotten worse with the increased supplementation, so I'm considering cutting back and seeing if that helps. I suppose cortisol could be an issue as well, as this has been a problem on and off for years. Eating something before bed doesn't consistently help, and I don't wake up hungry in the morning (no trouble waiting to lunch to eat if I want, even with some exercise), so not really thinking it's a glycemic issue, but I could be wrong. Thanks for any thoughts.

[slacker]

Sleep-wise, I feel like I'm on top of things like room darkening, temperature and sound control, and set bed and awakening times, though I could do better with screen-time management. My challenge lies in early morning awakening (3-4 a.m.), when I awake or experience disturbed sleep.

There's a long conversation on sleep in this topic. And more of a summary on sleep in the wiki. You may discover a nugget that you haven't run into yet! And of course please share any additional information that you have.

[Kvetch]

Can anyone comment on the advisability of a vegetarian keto diet in someone who already has osteoporosis? I have mild diabetes, on metformin, have one copy of apoe4. My mom had AD. I would like to lose weight and keep my blood sugars under better control. Thanks.