The end of the diet wars?
Re: The end of the diet wars?
Great question, Chris. I think an A1c of 5.7 is considered pre-diabetic so you probably did qualify for IR. Once that number, fasting glucose and fasting insulin all drop considerably AND you have little to no belly fat... cycling diets may make sense. BG testing can help determine whether or not your response to more carbs is well tolerated.
-
- Contributor
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:20 pm
Re: The end of the diet wars?
"the onset of Type 2 Diabetes probably occurs at least 12 years before clinical diagnosis." Dr.Kraft
does this seem similar to what some ALz researcher is claiming!
read in the reviews about the glucose tolerance test!
does this seem similar to what some ALz researcher is claiming!
read in the reviews about the glucose tolerance test!
Re: The end of the diet wars?
Chris,cdamaden wrote:When do you know if your IR has been healed?
As you may recall, I've been borderline pre-diabetic with A1C of 5.7 and fasting blood glucose of 95-110 mg/dL. Shifting to LCHF and intermittent fasting, my FBG has been in the mid 70s to low 80s. I've seen a few 1 hr spikes at ~125 but then it drops quickly below 100. So I'm not sure if I was/am IR.
thanks,
From a Kraft perspective, you'd like a fasting insulin of 5 or lower.
A Kraft summary is here: http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2015/ ... -missed-it Bottom line – Kraft did 14,000+ oral glucose tolerance tests WITH insulin assays. He found that 80% who had normal glucose responses had abnormal insulin responses. He called this “diabetes in-situ.” This does not count all those who had abnormal glucose responses. You need a fasting insulin of 5 or less to be in the clear. Kraft also did 3,000 autopsies and saw that excess insulin was the cause of much calcification in the heart, its structures and blood vessels. So keeping insulin low is a hot option. Here is an interview with him – he’s 96 and first published on this around 1975. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0nV-_ddXoc Catherine Crofts, in NZ, used the Kraft data for her PhD thesis recently. Here is a presentation by her : ht[url]tp://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2015/9/6/fat ... great-work[/url]
Stavia posted Krafts paper here: https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic ... fts#p24408 and Crofts' response on a pattern V (flat insulin) response on a LCHF diet here: https://www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic ... fts#p24405
In this post, they cite a study demonstrating that fasting insulin represents 50% of total insulin secretion for the day. This relationship holds for those with low and high levels. Hence someone with a fasting insulin of 30 produces 10 times the insulin over the course of a day as someone with a fasting insulin of 3. http://www.buttermakesyourpantsfalloff. ... n-problem/
Tincup
E3,E4
E3,E4
Re: The end of the diet wars?
Thanks, George, for such a thorough reply. I only have one fasting insulin reading at 4, which appears low compared to my previous 95-110 fasting blood glucose. I will definitely confirm that with my next round of blood tests.
Chris
E4/E4
Alameda, CA, USA
E4/E4
Alameda, CA, USA
Re: The end of the diet wars?
I'm guessing you are OK. If you are LCHF, you can have physiolgic insulin resistance, which can explain the spikes. See:cdamaden wrote:Thanks, George, for such a thorough reply. I only have one fasting insulin reading at 4, which appears low compared to my previous 95-110 fasting blood glucose. I will definitely confirm that with my next round of blood tests.
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ ... tance.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ ... tance.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/ ... again.html
Last edited by Tincup on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tincup
E3,E4
E3,E4
-
- Senior Contributor
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:17 pm
Re: The end of the diet wars?
The guy Dr B sometimes recommends for diet is Joel Furhman. I think most of us diet stricter than what he recommends, but it is a good start to see where you are at as a new patient on the protocol. It is more moderate and does help with compliance, which is the key for the MEND protocol.
Frank
Frank
Re: The end of the diet wars?
First time posting, as I can't claim to know much beyond my personal experience and readings, but this to me has the odor of yet another rear-guard action defending "all calories are the same," "LFHC isn't so bad," and the like - just what we saw around 2003 or so when Atkins became wildly popular. The advertising, including a lot of "studies", resulted ultimately in the "Bread is Back" campaign and the disappearance of a lot of low-carb versions of various useful foods as Atkins faded. People do like their sugar/starch fix, and scientific justifications for indulging are apparently welcome.
What does it mean to "do well" on a LF diet when you are young? It takes decades for IR and metabolic syndrome to build up, as the body is subjected to too much sugar and starch, whether contained in whole foods or junk foods. Of course one will "do well" getting rid of junk food at any stage, but over time the pancreas and other organs wear out from dealing with all the sugar, and visceral fat builds up as well. Even if you "only" gain 20 pounds between age 20 and age 50, you are likely not positioned well for a happy couple of decades following that.
I would like to see someone follow up on what happens to some of these subjects, but of course that will take decades as well.
"Everything is a spectrum" indeed, but why would one want to take a stroll down a path with a known and undesirable destination? Some people smoke and live to 100, and surely there are some whose physique can withstand the pressure of eating lots of sugar and starch forever as well. But prudence would seem to advise against either choice.
What does it mean to "do well" on a LF diet when you are young? It takes decades for IR and metabolic syndrome to build up, as the body is subjected to too much sugar and starch, whether contained in whole foods or junk foods. Of course one will "do well" getting rid of junk food at any stage, but over time the pancreas and other organs wear out from dealing with all the sugar, and visceral fat builds up as well. Even if you "only" gain 20 pounds between age 20 and age 50, you are likely not positioned well for a happy couple of decades following that.
I would like to see someone follow up on what happens to some of these subjects, but of course that will take decades as well.
"Everything is a spectrum" indeed, but why would one want to take a stroll down a path with a known and undesirable destination? Some people smoke and live to 100, and surely there are some whose physique can withstand the pressure of eating lots of sugar and starch forever as well. But prudence would seem to advise against either choice.
Re: The end of the diet wars?
Welcome harpsicon! You bring up some great points. The cool thing about Gardner's research is that both the LC & LF groups were eating a healthy whole foods diet- none of the junk food you warn against. I suspect that an ApoE4 carrier, starting at a young age, would do very well on any macronutrient ratios using a whole foods diet in a chronically hypocaloric state, living an active lifestyle. THAT combination of strategies would guard against the injuries that are so damaging to our population, BUT who does that? Subsequently, most of us are dealing with varying degrees of a broken metabolism and trying to tweak accordingly...