Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

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MarcR
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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby MarcR » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:58 pm

Orangeblossom wrote:In terms of the Wiki about Dr Gundry's advice can anyone explain to me what this means, and why is it specific to sat fats not the others? Thanks.

"Saturated fats compete for space within the Apolipoprotein 4's molecules ability to recycle cholesterol. No such problem exists if you don't carry the 4."
Dr. Gundry is a clinician, not a scientist. I think his personal and patient experiences drive his recommendations more than published research. Because in his practice he focuses primarily on getting his patients to make difficult lifestyle changes, communicating his prescriptions persuasively is critical to his success. Key elements include

  • Compelling, lay-accessible stories explaining his perspectives regarding lectins, inflammation, fasting, grains, dairy, etc. See The Plant Paradox for an unabridged presentation.
  • Extensive testing - explained by the stories, the unusual tests he uses and the per-patient custom prescriptions driven by those tests reinforce his credibility with patients.
  • The high costs of consultation and testing harnesses patients' innate desire to avoid cognitive dissonance: "If I'm paying so much, the advice I get is special, and I better follow it!"
I interpret statements from him like the one above as story elements that support his overall clinical strategy. I don't generally expect to find persuasive science to support all of his perspectives. That may sound like a criticism, but I don't intend it that way. I don't generally perceive Dr. Gundry's clinical approach to contravene the most persuasive science; I just think he is comfortable making intuitive leaps beyond the current level of high-quality evidence.

I see Dr. Gundry the clinician adopting the language of science while eschewing the methodology in order to persuade his patients to adopt lifestyles that seem to be greatly increasing their health spans. He has an exceptionally loyal base of patients, and for me that is the bottom line.

To answer your question specifically, I think that statement just means that based on his experiences with patients and his judgement as a successful clinician, Dr. Gundry thinks it's best for ε4 carriers to limit saturated fat consumption. I personally am not persuaded that he is correct on this point, and I choose to eat saturated fats ad libitum.

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby Orangeblossom » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:04 pm

OK thanks that is helpful.

I noticed there was some advice about cheese too, making LDL oxidised (Gundry wiki) but I eat cheese especially gouda, edam and brie as it has high levels of Vitamin K2 and don;t want to give than up (plus it is delicious).

I guess it is all a choice we need to individually make. And I'm sure of one thing, having a diet low in processed foods and carbs and eating less than your recommended calorie intake (e.g. from intermittent fasting) is the main thing, avoiding the situation in the first article where the body starts producing too much of it's own de novo fats... :?

In terms of my own results eating like this means HDL is half of whole cholesterol, 2.6 out of 5.2 mol/l so I'm happy with that. and HBAC1 35

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby Orangeblossom » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm

In the research, it is often mentioned that

"Studies performed in humans and corresponding mouse models which express apoE4, suggest that brain apoE4 is less lipidated compared to apoE3," for example here. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5100931/

and that this is a problem. It seems making it more lipidated is better. "to reverse the hypolipidation of apoE4 and the associated brain pathology and behavioral deficits."

And if you look at genes ABCA1 for example -

From Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCA1

"ABCA1 mediates the efflux of cholesterol and phospholipids to lipid-poor apolipoproteins (apo-A1 and apoE), which then form nascent high-density lipoproteins (HDL). It also mediates the transport of lipids between Golgi and cell membrane. Since this protein is needed throughout the body it is expressed ubiquitously as a 220-kDa protein. It is present in higher quantities in tissues that shuttle or are involved in the turnover of lipids such as the liver, the small intestine and adipose tissue.[13]

Factors that act upon the ABCA1 transporter's expression or its posttranslational modification are also molecules that are involved in its subsequent function like fatty acids, cholesterol..."

Another good reason to have high levels of these then. It seems to be highly linked in the literature to clearance of amyloid and interacts with APOE4...

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby Lia » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:08 pm

This article may be of interest for the topic here.
https://brain.forever-healthy.org/display/EN/APOE4

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby slacker » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:35 pm

Welcom Lia;

What brings you to this website? When you are ready, please introduce yourself in the "Our Stories" forum.
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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby Jan » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:29 am

I add my welcome to the site, Lia, and as Slacker said, we'd love to hear more about you. :-)
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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby petersonwood » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:49 am

MarcR wrote:To answer your question specifically, I think that statement just means that based on his experiences with patients and his judgement as a successful clinician, Dr. Gundry thinks it's best for ε4 carriers to limit saturated fat consumption. I personally am not persuaded that he is correct on this point, and I choose to eat saturated fats ad libitum.



Hi MarkR,
I am new to all of this and just found out I am a 2/4. I have been following a keto diet off and on for two years and am grain free. My cholesterol levels are all in the normal range. My doctor said, you have an Apoe 4 so stop keto and drop all saturated fats. I don't think i agree with her after all the reading I am doing. I am wondering if you have a fat ratio of saturated fats to unsaturated fats?or if you just eat high fat? Do you also include dairy? I did not see it on your profile. Just curious about what you are doing. I appreciate your postings

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby MarcR » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:10 pm

Hi petersonwood - welcome!

I don't manage fat consumption ratios as I do not believe that monounsaturated fat is more healthful than saturated. I think they're both healthful as long as they come from high quality unprocessed food.

I eat lots of high fat dairy - Kerrygold butter, Dubliner cheese, and Zoi yogurt (8% milkfat). I do avoid milk as it causes some digestive difficulties - I assume the higher lactose content is to blame.

Intermittent fasting - no calories for at least 16 hours each day - is a cornerstone of my strategy. I do not think I would enjoy the health that I do if I did not restrict my feeding window. I'm also active with lots of walking, weights, calisthenics, and a variety of strenuous outdoor activities.

These are some other staples of my diet:

- A custom mix of 40% dry roasted macadamias; 9% each of raw walnuts, pecans, hazelnuts, and cashews; 9% each of dry roasted pistachios and almonds; and 6% raw sunflower seeds.
- 88% Endangered Species chocolate, limited to 1 oz per day due to lead and cadmium content.
- Vital Farms Alfresco pastured eggs.
- Kirkland Signature Organic EVOO.
- 85/15 grass fed and finished hamburger.
- U. S. Wellness Meats grass fed beef liverwurst.
- Wild caught salmon and sardines.
- Organic blueberries and strawberries.
- Avocados, romaine, spinach, cauliflower, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, yams, sweet potatoes, grape tomatoes, sweet peppers, shiitake mushrooms, carrots, onions, garlic.
- White rice in modest quantities. If I have too much in a sitting, my one hour postprandial blood sugar will spike.

I don't quantify or manage much beyond the chocolate and the rice - I just eat what I want while avoiding industrial seed oils and sweets.

I think we're all different and that no diet fits everyone. I imagine I would eat differently if I didn't feel well, had trouble maintaining my weight, had autoimmune symptoms, high blood pressure, etc.

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby Lucy5 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:03 pm

pertersonwood wrote: Hi MarkR,
I am new to all of this and just found out I am a 2/4. I have been following a keto diet off and on for two years and am grain free. My cholesterol levels are all in the normal range. My doctor said, you have an Apoe 4 so stop keto and drop all saturated fats. I don't think i agree with her after all the reading I am doing. I am wondering if you have a fat ratio of saturated fats to unsaturated fats?or if you just eat high fat? Do you also include dairy? I did not see it on your profile. Just curious about what you are doing. I appreciate your postings
Hi petersonwood and welcome to our community!

As you continue browsing through our forums you'll find extensive debate regarding optimal diets for E4s which often as not include the potential impact/role of saturated vs unsaturated fats for us. I've also been keenly interested in MarcR's diet/lifestyle as well as those of other members who've searched for and found protocols that have delivered results for them. With the understanding that despite our common E4 allele(s) we are each unique, we learn a lot from the experiences of our E4 sisters & brothers shared here. By the way, you mentioned that in spite of your cholesterol numbers being in the normal range, your doctor recommended eliminating saturated fats. I'm wondering if her recommendation was based solely on her understanding of the E4 allele or if there was some specific lab test result(s) that impacted her view?

You mentioned you've already done considerable reading on diet, but if you haven't had the opportunity as yet, we highly recommend browsing through our excellent site Primer written by Stavia, an ApoE4/4 member practicing physician. It's a very thorough, thoughtful and common sense resource for prioritized lifestyle strategies focusing on mitigating the risks of this E4 allele of ours. For a deep dive into topics of interest to our members (including ketogenic/other diets) check out our Wiki. While there, you may also want to take a look at our Wiki How-To-Guide for tips on getting the most out of our website.

Petersonwood, looking forward to seeing you on the forums!
warmly, Lucy

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Re: Chris Masterjohn on saturated fat

Postby srbogert » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:55 am

Welcome to the community petersonwood. Lucy and Marc have shared good points. I'll just reinforce them by saying that while many areas of managing E4 status are well defined (See the primer) some details like saturated fat consumption remain unsettled. The disparity may be due to individual differences in our makeup (Does an E2/E4 react the same to fats as an E3/E4 or E4/E4?) To a degree, we are all finding our own way (N=1) and then sharing what works and what doesn't.

Please keep searching and sharing with us.
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