No vegans on this forum?

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
Surfrank57
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:17 pm

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby Surfrank57 » Sat May 28, 2016 1:59 pm

Well spoken Marc, quality of life for whatever amount of time we have on this planet is the key for me.

F

ApropoE4
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:43 pm

Re: RE: Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby ApropoE4 » Sat May 28, 2016 4:16 pm

MarcR wrote:
ApropoE4 wrote:If you told me that I would have an additional decade of healthy living in my 70s but in exchange I had to suffer a vegan diet, I would prefer the early demise.

That's my simple answer. ymmv.

I used to feel that way. As my body increasingly reflected my unhealthy habits, I realized that eating poorly doesn't just cut off the last 10 years of life - it also offers 30 years of ever-increasing suffering prior.

At 53 I think more about healthspan than lifespan. The daily benefits of restored health changed my preferences - now when I look at hyperpalatable processed food, the temptation is balanced by visceral revulsion.


And those are the options - veganism or decades or poor health? are you sure?

User avatar
Stavia
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5265
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: Middle Earth

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby Stavia » Sat May 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Apropo of course that's not the choice. We are debating compromising current gratification versus long term gains in general using the current item under discussion as a starting point for our conversation.

ApropoE4
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:43 pm

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby ApropoE4 » Sat May 28, 2016 8:47 pm

I know, I know.

Anyway, given the (subjective, circumstance dependent) penalty and dubious future reward of veganism vs other diets that yield similar results in terms of BMI and likely better results overall, it's just not for me.

User avatar
Stavia
Mod
Mod
Posts: 5265
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: Middle Earth

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby Stavia » Sat May 28, 2016 9:50 pm

Depends what you define as reward ;)
I wish actually that I had the discipline not to eat animals. It doesn't sit completely comfortably with me. I know it's not black and white and I don't want to start an argument on ethics where everyone defends their position, just saying that in a perfect world I personally would be happier if I didn't eat mammals or birds at least.

VictorN
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby VictorN » Sat May 28, 2016 11:05 pm

Vegan or not, if you found a healthy lifestyle which suits you, you're better off if you commit to it 100%, because falling to instant gratification is a dangerous path. For example, I'm still longing bacon with scrambled eggs and mayo, so what? Yes, they are more delicious than unsalted beans, but they are unhealthy, end of story.

Some of you mentioned the lack of discipline. Maybe it's not that hard after all. Just ask yourself one simple question every day: what else can I do for my health? And before doing anything, ask one more question: is it good for my health?

I've been following such simple protocol since last December, digging for untapped health reserves, writing results to a daily journal. I found so many things I could do for my health, it's amazing. I also noticed that, with such mindset, I don't need much willpower, since I'm too enthusiastic to remember that I'm "suffering". In a strange way, avoiding instant gratification brings me instant gratification, if you know what I mean.

apod
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 967
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:11 pm

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby apod » Sun May 29, 2016 12:25 am

VictorN wrote:Vegan or not, if you found a healthy lifestyle which suits you, you're better off if you commit to it 100%, because falling to instant gratification is a dangerous path. For example, I'm still longing bacon with scrambled eggs and mayo, so what? Yes, they are more delicious than unsalted beans, but they are unhealthy, end of story.
These ladies come to mind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edna_Parker
Edna Ruth Parker (April 20, 1893 – November 26, 2008) was an American supercentenarian and, until her death, was recognized as the oldest person in the world. She assumed the title at age 114 years 115 days. Parker especially enjoyed eggs, sausage, bacon and fried chicken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Baines
Gertrude Baines (April 6, 1894 – September 11, 2009) was an American supercentenarian, who became the oldest recognized living person according to Guinness World Records at the age of 115. According to MSNBC.com, she enjoyed "simple pleasures" of eating a diet of bacon and eggs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Besse_Cooper
Besse Berry Cooper (August 26, 1896 – December 4, 2012) was an American supercentenarian who was the world's oldest living person from June 21, 2011, until her death. She was, at the time of her death, the eighth oldest verified person ever and the eighth person verified to have lived to the age of 116. She ate bacon and eggs nearly every morning. Cooper also loves fried chicken, her daughter said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susannah_Mushatt_Jones
Susannah Mushatt Jones (July 6, 1899 – May 12, 2016) was an American supercentenarian who was, at the age of 116 years, 311 days, the world's oldest living person and the last living American born in the 19th century. For breakfast, she always ate four strips of bacon along with scrambled eggs and grits. She also ate bacon throughout the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Morano
Emma Martina Luigia Morano (born 29 November 1899) is an Italian supercentenarian who is, at the age of 116 years, 182 days, the world's oldest living person, and the last verified living person to have been born in the 1800s. She surpassed the age of Venere Pizzinato in August 2014 and Dina Manfredini (died in the USA) in August 2015, to become the oldest Italian person ever. She credits her long life to having eaten three eggs every day since she was a teenager.

Etc.

There's a whole school of thought that finds beans to be unhealthy for many individuals, end of story (eg. "The Paleo Diet".)

If I recall, bacon is one of the more nutrient dense meats, and eggs are surely one of the best sources for dietary choline. In the 1999 metastudy from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, vegans had a mortality rate that ranged up to 1.44, while occasional meat eaters came in at 0.84, and seafood eaters at 0.82. Looking at vegetarians in the UK study, the mortality measured about the same as non-vegetarians. Overall, I think you're maybe looking at an extra 1 year, maybe two years (or 3?) of old age following decades of strict health-oriented dieting at every meal, which tends to be associated with other health-promoting habits. It's interesting to see adventists strongly advised to avoid tobacco / alcohol / drugs / caffeine and eat a vegetarian diet, with a life expectancy of 86 for women, while in japan, there's a large drinking + smoking culture and they eat whatever they want with an average life expectancy of 87 for women. It's also interesting to note a potential for higher levels of protein glycation and AGEs in vegetarians, likely due to fructose consumption.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/526S.long
"a low-meat, high plant-food dietary pattern may be the true causal protective factor rather than simply elimination of meat from the diet."

VictorN
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: No vegans on this forum?

Postby VictorN » Sun May 29, 2016 10:56 am

Bacon and eggs might be good for some but I definitely wouldn't make it to 115 eating them (you can re-read my story in "Introductions"). It's not relevant though, bacon was just an example.

Just recalled that Jeanne Calment smoked till the age of 117 (and lived to 122, as you may know). She also drank port wine and ate one kilo of chocolate every week. That must be the magic bullet I've been looking for! I better start smoking, drinking and eating chocolate right now, before it's too late to catch up.


Return to “Prevention and Treatment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests