No vegans on this forum?

[circular]

Viktor, while I truly doubt this applies to you at present given your workouts, keep in mind the general concept that sarcopenia is a risk factor for cognitive issues. It suggests, and some studies have corroborated, that protein requirements are higher in the elderly. They also have compromised digestion and may tolerate some proteins better than others. That's just to mention that a diet that works at one time in someone's life may not be the best at another time.

[Stavia]

Viktor, great discussion. We need to continually keep asking questions.
I personally am constantly aware that much of what I do food wise (not the striving for best possible glycaemic control and maximising micronutrients, for me the evidence for these is convincing) is a best guess in a marshland of opposing camps slugging it out.

Should I eat fish or beans or beef or lamb for my protein? Dunno. And that's the honest truth.
But I have to develop a plan for myself that is sustainable and palatable and keeps my glucose low. So I have chosen local fish as my main protein because its easily available and sustainable and safe from mercury in my country and quick to prepare and I can safely eat it raw if I am in a hurry and I don't like to buy shipped in foods and it solves my chosen omega 3 intake easily and I feel cattle are an emerging problem in my country because of methane and degradation of the waterways and I find lamb very fatty and I'm not sure about sat fats. If I had more time to cook and local legumes available I might chose those more.
I believe a best individual food choice is a decision that should be made from considering many factors.
And that there is always, always going to be uncertainty. We just don't know enough IMO to be dogmatic. Dogmatism makes me want to run a mile away. In my medical career I've seen too much of arrogant dogmatism turn out so wrong decades later.

[VictorN]

Viktor, while I truly doubt this applies to you at present given your workouts, keep in mind the general concept that sarcopenia is a risk factor for cognitive issues. It suggests, and some studies have corroborated, that protein requirements are higher in the elderly. They also have compromised digestion and may tolerate some proteins better than others. That's just to mention that a diet that works at one time in someone's life may not be the best at another time.

I'm well aware of sarcopenia and working my ass off to prevent it. Specifically, in my strength training, I recently switched to calisthenics, pursuing full planche push-ups, "human flag", one arm pull-ups/chin-ups and other crazy stuff. I haven't seen any other old fart vegan doing all of these, so the goals add some challenge and excitement to my training routine.

I also watch my body weight, not allowing it to go lower than current 150 lbs. If it will, I'll simply increase my calorie intake. And, with my kind of diet, I don't need to watch protein - there's an optimal amount of it in plants. So, less total calories - less protein; more total calories - more protein.

[VictorN]

Viktor, great discussion. We need to continually keep asking questions.
I personally am constantly aware that much of what I do food wise (not the striving for best possible glycaemic control and maximising micronutrients, for me the evidence for these is convincing) is a best guess in a marshland of opposing camps slugging it out.

Should I eat fish or beans or beef or lamb for my protein? Dunno. And that's the honest truth.
But I have to develop a plan for myself that is sustainable and palatable and keeps my glucose low. So I have chosen local fish as my main protein because its easily available and sustainable and safe from mercury in my country and quick to prepare and I can safely eat it raw if I am in a hurry and I don't like to buy shipped in foods and it solves my chosen omega 3 intake easily and I feel cattle are an emerging problem in my country because of methane and degradation of the waterways and I find lamb very fatty and I'm not sure about sat fats. If I had more time to cook and local legumes available I might chose those more.
I believe a best individual food choice is a decision that should be made from considering many factors.
And that there is always, always going to be uncertainty. We just don't know enough IMO to be dogmatic. Dogmatism makes me want to run a mile away. In my medical career I've seen too much of arrogant dogmatism turn out so wrong decades later.

Agreed with all you said. Btw, Dr. Fuhrman himself mentioned that he doesn't know if small amount of animal products [in Nutritarian diet] makes any difference. Most importantly, according to him, is eating variety of unrefined plants.

[buck3Maureen]

Hi All, Became vegan (I agree I hate that word - I prefer plant based) in Oct 2015. Nothing to do with health - in fact I was afraid I would be told that I needed to eat dairy for my health - but was told not eating my beloved cheese, sour cream, ice cream and milk was good. I came to this site after going to a Buck Institute seminar. I am in my late 60's and have MCI. I had no idea of my APO4 status (4/2) prior to the seminar. So I am so clueless about a lot of this and I have started to do everything I can and worry about why later. I am eating a lot of tempeh, tofu, beans and nuts and of course greens. Problem I have is weight loss. I weigh less then I did in high school. Cannot figure out how to put on weight without eating many carbs.
Maureen

[VictorN]

I am eating a lot of tempeh, tofu, beans and nuts and of course greens. Problem I have is weight loss. I weigh less then I did in high school. Cannot figure out how to put on weight without eating many carbs.
Maureen

Hi Maureen. Do you do strength training? If not, you should start immediately. Second, make sure you eat enough seeds and nuts, and don't forget about steel cut oats. I usually eat them for breakfast, with added ground flaxseeds, dried black currents, goji berries, organic extra firm tofu (or beans every other day), a bit of unsweetened soy milk, and two mashed bananas - delicious! Also for the breakfast goes a huge plate of fields greens, an avocado, pumpkin seeds and sometimes berries. For beverage, it's hot water with lemon and ginger (we still call it "tea"). My wife eats the same breakfast. Don't worry about extra carbs or glycemic load. The breakfast like this has enough calories, is healthy and won't do you any harm.

Viktor

[SusanJ]

Like Circ, my dabbling in veganism led to major gut issues, too. Grains and legumes were the major offenders (I've been off dairy since 1999). Without good sources of plant protein, I went back to eating fish, chicken and some red meat.

Happy you've found a diet that works!

[VictorN]

Like Circ, my dabbling in veganism led to major gut issues, too. Grains and legumes were the major offenders (I've been off dairy since 1999). Without good sources of plant protein, I went back to eating fish, chicken and some red meat.

Happy you've found a diet that works!

Hi Susan. Still, I can't help but thinking maybe you guys did something wrong. How come the same diet also helped my wife, who is totally different from me, both genetically and physically?

We are the same species, and while genes are different in every person, epigenetics might be not that different. And what about gut microbiota? It changes when the diet changes, and it further affects our genes expression. My point is, if one is persistent enough, his or her microbiota will adjust and handle, for example, all legumes and all plant carbs you eat. Yes, most likely you're going to fart ten times more often, but, how somebody said on one vegan forum - "Embrace it!"

Viktor

[SusanJ]

It was more than just farting or doing something "wrong." I lived through a lot of farting when I started eating vegan, swapping out animal products for tofu, lentils, grains, etc. But as I continued eating vegan, my gut issues became IBS, I was quite ill, and in the same time period, I also developed severe symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis until I stopped grains and legumes. Stopping allowed me to clear up the gut problems and downregulated the systemic inflammation. The proof for me is that I can pull on a pair of socks without pain, my IBS is mostly controlled and my RA is now just daily morning stiffness with an occasional flare. And my rheumatologist thought I was crazy to try diet change alone, but I've gone 7 years without any progressive joint damage common to RA (verified through xrays) without drugs.

I think it goes to the mix of other genes that we carry, and especially ones related to immune response. For example, Circ and I have some some similar gene variants that lead to excess histamine and mast cell activation - perhaps that mix of immune-related genes are part of the answer why you and your wife can eat vegan and Circ and I can't. Any mast cell over-activation in the gut is known not to be a good thing and in IBS it is linked to food intolerance. Take out the food antigens and the mast-cell activation normalizes. I did a strict elimination diet under the supervision of doctor to figure out what bothered me.

Believe me, life would be easier if I could eat grains and legumes - eating out and entertaining would certainly be easier - but I know my health would be much worse.

As we like to say here, we're all an N=1.

[circular]

Hi Viktor, I (and others here) am also focused on nurturing a healthy gut biome, but I'm not convinced vegan eating is the only way there. Non-vegan doesn't mean non-prebiotic and pro-biotic foods.