Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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SusanJ
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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circular wrote:I don't understand why all three didn't show up on the first culture. If they're right, there must be biofilms on top of biofilms, each housing a different organism in nice, stratified, nasal condo development.
Now there is some image - nasal condo development. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do think it's a good question, about having to excavate each biofilm layer separately.
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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charbor wrote:Hi floramaria

<snip>

Have you already looked into mold? It is a low-lying fruit of VCS issues. You could possibly talk your Primary Care Provider into doing the 3 tests that help sort that out: A pattern that raises concern for mold:

Low VEFG
Elevated C4a
Low MSH. 

I am sure other things could create this pattern, but carbon-based molecules (called biotoxins because they come from life forms) rather than mercury trigger the innate immune system. These are discussed in other threads

<snip>

Cathryn
Hi Cathryn,

First of all, welcome to the forum!

I have a question about what you wrote to floramaria, but I figured I'd move it over to the CIRS thread.

Do you know what else besides mold illness can cause low MSH? I mean just low MSH, not the pattern you mention of the three biomarkers. I have low MSH (<8 then 14 when retested) and normal c4a, but I haven't had VEGF tested. My MARCoNS test was negative, but I have two haplotypes for mold susceptibility. I haven't had a full workup for mold illness, but it seems unlikely that I have this issue.

One thing I've been working on is healing my gut dysbiosis and leaky gut. I have above-range antibodies to lipopolysaccharides (LPS) from gut dysbiosis per Cyrex Labs testing. I see LPS as a biotoxin that comes from inside the body, not from the usual external sources. So I'm wondering if high levels of LPS (for probably many years) could cause low MSH.

Or maybe something I'm completely unaware of could cause low MSH besides mold illness?
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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alysson wrote:
Do you know what else besides mold illness can cause low MSH? I mean just low MSH, not the pattern you mention of the three biomarkers. I have low MSH (<8 then 14 when retested) and normal c4a, but I haven't had VEGF tested. My MARCoNS test was negative, but I have two haplotypes for mold susceptibility. I haven't had a full workup for mold illness, but it seems unlikely that I have this issue.

One thing I've been working on is healing my gut dysbiosis and leaky gut. I have above-range antibodies to lipopolysaccharides (LPS) from gut dysbiosis per Cyrex Labs testing. I see LPS as a biotoxin that comes from inside the body, not from the usual external sources. So I'm wondering if high levels of LPS (for probably many years) could cause low MSH.

Or maybe something I'm completely unaware of could cause low MSH besides mold illness?
Hi Alysson;

There are definitely causes of low MSH other than mold biotoxins, but I don't know if there are non-CIRS reasons...interesting research project!

Dr Shoemaker's starts his search of presence of CIRS with determination of MSH among other things. If MSH and other tests, signs, and symptoms point to CIRS, he start looking for mold since this is this form of biotoxin that is the most common root cause of CIRS in his experience. Why do you think that you don't have a problem with mold biotoxins? Have you had HLA DR/DQ drawn?

The second most common root cause per Shoemaker are tick borne Lyme like infections. Have you been checked for these? Third most common is MARCONS. MARCONS testing is subject to sampling error (did I go deep enough and long enough to get a good sample?). There are other steps past this in the Shoemaker protocol, but this is the extent of my limited understanding as of now.

Bear in mind that not all forms of inflammation produce an abnormally high hsCRP or ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate). I suspect these are rarely elevated in CIRS, since testing for them is not part of Shoemaker's CIRS protocol.

Hope this helps! And it will be interesting to hear from Cathryn as well...
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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Hi Slacker,

Thanks for your response. Yes, it helps! I've gathered some thoughts together here.

I don't think I have a problem with mold because my C4a is normal, and my MARCoNS test was negative. I did do the HLA DR/DQ testing. I have 7-2-53 and 17-2-52B, both of which are for mold susceptibility.

From my understanding, these haplotypes must be turned on to make one susceptible to mold illness. I suspect mine haven't been. However, when I was a child, my family lived for five years in a home that had a basement that flooded at least three times. I used to play down there with my toys. I never got sick from that, though. Instead, my childhood was fraught with horrible strep throat infections once or twice a year (and I took 10 days of penicillin with each and every infection).

I also had my TGF-beta 1 tested. It was a bit above range, but that could be explained by autoimmunity, which I have. Also, a VCS test (which I did at home by myself) appeared to show that I need a new prescription for my glasses because one eye was a bit out of focus when I covered the other eye. Otherwise, I didn't see any irregularities.

Recently, I had my ADH and osmolality tested. My ADH was low <.8 (normal range per survivingmold.com: 1.0-13.3 pg/ml), but my osmolality was normal at 281 (but near the bottom of the range). Per a web site from a Shoemaker-trained practitioner, Natasha Thomas, MD: "In Biotoxin illness patients, a lack of regulation of salt and water balance is apparent when ADH is low (or too high) but osmolality is relatively high (or too low)." I don't have this pattern. My ADH is low, but my osmolality is normal (but lowish).

This year, I've twice done a nasal microbiome test through uBiome.com. Both times, my sample didn't have enough bacteria to measure; thus, I didn't get any results. I've been given a third kit to try again, but I'm holding off for at least a month before submitting another sample. I realized that some of the therapeutic-grade essential oils I've been using for years (which I take orally and smell frequently) are anti-microbial and can decimate the microbiome of the mouth, so I figure they can probably also decimate the microbiome of the nose. So I've stopped taking them orally or smelling them.

I think it's possible I had MARCoNS but I killed it, along with all the other bacteria in my nose. I think that's more likely than a sampling error for the MARCoNS test.

I was tested for Lyme disease using the Western blot test. My results was negative. (But I have heard that testing for Lyme is fraught with issues.)

[Addition: I was also tested for Lyme disease C6 Peptide by ELISA and Lyme disease IgG/IgM by Elisa. All were negative.]

I wonder if LPS can create a type of CIRS. According to microbiologist Kiran Krishnan, LPS from gut bacteria is probably the biggest daily toxic exposure for people with an unhealthy gut. (I still need to share my notes from a webinar during which he provided a ton of information about LPS. I'm waiting for the transcript to come out, so I can confirm many of the details in my notes.)

Maybe I'm in denial. Every time I look at the costs (including travel) for thorough CIRS testing, I cringe.
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

Post by Julie G »

As for dampness....I moved to northern New Mexico almost 30 years ago.
Dampness is an extremely rare quality here. We have skin-cracking dryness.
But I do understand that the overall environment is
no protection against mold that may be flourishing in areas where there are
water leaks and poor air flow. Remember reading a story that the Santa Fe Public Library was closed
for extensive mold mitigation several years ago.

I have my second appointment with my somewhat reluctant FM doctor in two weeks.
Will see if he can/will order the tests.
Because I do not have any intense manifesting health issues, he seems to take my concerns with
several grains of salt...
For now, he is better than no one, and I am hopeful that he will come to understand the advantages
of addressing potential undermining factors as early as possible for everyone carrying the ApoE4 allele.
Rather than shooting in the dark to try to identify what’s going on, you may consider doing an HLA-DR/DQ haplotype test (details in first post of this thread) that points towards the likely cause of your failed VCS test. Mine very clearly pointed to a post-Lyme infection, which was found... in spades :?. I understand the test can be pricey. Because it was ordered by my physician, insurance covered it for me. You can also ask for the price beforehand and try to negotiate a self-pay reduction. While mold is less likely to a problem in New Mexico, it can still occur anywhere water or dampness is trapped and stagnant. Additionally, there are many tic species there, including, Lyme, BUT I wouldn't recommend blindly testing until you know whether or not you‘re genetically susceptible. To help you understand, here is an HLA-DR/DQ calculator. When you plug your numbers in, it reveals the likely cause of chronic inflammation.
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

Post by floramaria »

Thanks, Julie G.

I definitely have that "shooting in the dark" sensation! and have been trying to figure out where to start to see what the cause of the failed VCS test is. If the HLA/DR-DQ is less of a shot in the dark and will really identify the underlying cause, then it would probably be worth the
money. And maybe if my doctor would write something other than "hypochondria" as the reason for the test, insurance would cover.
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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floramaria wrote:Thanks, Julie G.

I definitely have that "shooting in the dark" sensation! and have been trying to figure out where to start to see what the cause of the failed VCS test is. If the HLA/DR-DQ is less of a shot in the dark and will really identify the underlying cause, then it would probably be worth the
money. And maybe if my doctor would write something other than "hypochondria" as the reason for the test, insurance would cover.
:lol:
Another possibility is to start with a MSH test, although my understanding from one of Dr Jill Carnahan's YouTube videos is that it can be normal early in the process. MSH typically goes low once TGF beta1 is elevated (not conventional "normal range"; biotoxin experts use different criteria). If one or both of these tests are abnormal, pointing in the direction of CIRS, then it may be worthwhile doing the HLA DR/DQ susceptibility testing. However, even the HLA genotyping may not clearly define what is causing the VCS failure. If you test positive to multi susceptibility, you start looking under every stone, although mold biotoxins are the most common cause of CIRS. And again, VCS is just a test; it is not a 100% accurate screening device. Unfortunately, I am unaware of any expert who Has a recommended "economy plan" for testing; they seem to want to get it all done from the onset!

As far as cost, I personally have gotten the insurance negotiated LabCorp price on all my labs ordered, which is usually 10% of list price. I pay 100% of this remainder due to my high deductible plan. I highly doubt that these tests would be "covered" by my insurance, given lack of appropriate diagnoses (hypochondria doesn't work!), but perhaps they don't mind me getting the negotiated price.

I lived in Santa Fe New Mexico for one year and remember being told (I think by our landlord) that mold is a huge problem in the area, especially in adobe buildings. So perhaps dry climate alone is not completely protective. Think flat roof leaks!

We are navigating the same trail. Good luck!
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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charbor (clunky cut and paste from other thread):

as to my earlier low hanging fruit comment, I simply intended to say that mold illness is very inflaming and perhaps a more likely cause of VCS abnormality than mercury. While unraveling all the parts is not simple, moving as rapidly as you can from dampness and mold exposure is critical.
Again, to eval reaction to mold exposure likelihood, I'd do the tests above --c4a msh, vegf - and perhaps add TGFbeta-1 to try to sort it out.
Cathryn; is accurate C4a testing available again? My understanding from a few months ago was that the quest/labcorp test was not accurate, and that Jewish National was no longer accepting mailed frozen samples. Has this changed?
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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I just wanted to say that I completely agree with Slacker's recommendations to get an Alpha-MSH done first. I almost recommended it myself. It's inexpensive and typically covered by insurance. If that's low (by CIRS standards,) you have a better reason to move forward with the HLA-DR/DQ. One other thought, Flora. I wouldn't be too quick to "fix" what isn't broken. If you truly have no symptoms, I'd be very hesitant to do any testing. VCS tests can also indicate the beginnings of cataracts or glaucoma. Maybe an appt. with your eye doctor would be a good first step.
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Re: Chronic Inflammation as a contributor to Alzheimer’s

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Julie G wrote:I just wanted to say that I completely agree with Slacker's recommendations to get an Alpha-MSH done first. I almost recommended it myself. It's inexpensive and typically covered by insurance. If that's low (by CIRS standards,) you have a better reason to move forward with the HLA-DR/DQ. One other thought, Flora. I wouldn't be too quick to "fix" what isn't broken. If you truly have no symptoms, I'd be very hesitant to do any testing. VCS tests can also indicate the beginnings of cataracts or glaucoma. Maybe an appt. with your eye doctor would be a good first step.
A thorough eye exam makes perfect sense. How practical, Julie!

Initiating extensive evaluation for prevention vs reversal of symptoms is definitely an individual decision. I've had the pleasure of working as a health coach with a prevention participant of Dr Bredesen's Immersion program. She's a young woman with strong family history of AD, and is going full board on prevention, including CIRS evaluation with resulting need for mold remediation. An inspiring and inspirational case for me; it's also a very expensive proposition, yet she has made the decision to correct everything possible now prior to having any problems. Not everyone has the financial luxury to do so.
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