The Homocysteine/AD connection

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Stavia
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Re: RE: Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby Stavia » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:32 pm

MAC wrote:Sorry, what I meant, is that the tHcy studies do not absolutely prove a dementia root mechanistic neurodegenerative cause. I have absolutely no theory, just trying to filter for absolute proven mechanisms that gives hope to improved targetted therapeutic result.

Ok I understand. No offence taken.

MAC I have said before that biochemistry is extremely complex. IMO scientists are still at the information gathering stage. Nothing is proven in black and white. We have no black and white root cause identified. Not one single one. I have said to you previously several times that I see you searching for certainty where there cannot be at this stage of the game. In your first posts you wanted black and white risk reduction numbers. And of course as a 4/4 woman I have much skin in this game so I want certainty at least as much as anyone.
However - at present I personally feel, and I know at least Bredesen is on the same page, in the absence of neurotoxin exposure (like the mould situation), glycaemic control and inflammation are likely to be the biggest players. But this is still an informed guess, as the evidence strongly points to this but is not conclusive.
There has to logically be other players because there are plausible biological mechanisms, in vitro and animal studies as well as observational data for aspects such as D3, Omega3, thyroid hormone, oestradiol, and yes homocysteine as well amongst others.

Of course questions are good. We are here for discussion. Everything we discuss here is unproven in terms of a large, decades long gold standard double blind RCT, which I predict will never see in our lifetimes. The body is the most complex system you will encounter as an engineer, and it is still only partially understood.
Welcome to my world as a mainstream, coalface doctor. I've worked with shades of grey and no certainty for over 30 years. And this field of dementia prevention is the greyest I have ever encountered.

Sandy57
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby Sandy57 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:50 pm

Could not agree with Stavia more.....only difference is I have come 180 and now turning the corner and think we will need drugs. As a sports (functional med) Chiro. with a nutrition degree, the last thing I use or want to use is drugs...but at this point I think they will be a CO-PLAYER...not mono- therapy, but contributor....not seeing any hard data from anybody that can convince me otherwise right now...Sandy is the last person you could imagine with early AD...

She is a 3/3 no family history, no diabetes, no drug use, no smoking, normal BP, her numbers for Dr. B were spot on, low Homocysteine, low trigs etc etc. nothing telling in 23 and me... (low estrogen, mild depression since all this started, possible toxin) ....can you get rid of toxins with out drugs.. Don't think so...Like Stavia said the human body is so complex it is crazy..there are no black and white answers at this point, maybe never will be...or maybe just maybe...a drug comes along and helps, not a cure per se, but slows, even reduces issues.. I am back to hoping, before I said it will never happen...if anybody has black and white data to show they have answers, please link here for me, I would love to read it.....my goal is doing our best and a waiting game...

Please do not take as a rant, not my intention, nor should anybody change a thing they are doing because of my opinion, I could be 100% wrong...actually would love to be wrong....I am 59 years old and have been around medicine since I was 19.. Did research for many docs including GYN...at med school as well, wife a nurse for 33 years, basically that is all we have done, some type of medicine, research, wellness work, and teach....so after I look at papers, protocols, research, it better be spot on or I will pick it apart...just not seeing that in this area yet...

Like I have told Julie privately, I keep my advice very generic on purpose, I want people to experiment, try various protocols, see what works best for them without my opinion. I can get as technical as it gets, but find that useless on a forum. In fact I always talk in laymen's terms....I will never give up, stop trying, looking, but unfortunately see the big picture rather quickly in studies, protocols, papers, programs; which can be a big disadvantage at times... Keep hoping, keep working, keep asking questions of each other; your community is the best I have seen...great info, great people...and Stavia who is an MD is an awesome resource and willing to say more than most docs would on a forum....

Aloha Frank and Sandy

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Julie G
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby Julie G » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:45 pm

{{{Frank & Sandy}}} I'm saddened to hear that Sandy's progress has plateaued. I adore you both and want all the best for her. I couldn't agree more that pharma will very likely play a role in treating AD. Lifestyle alone may not be enough for all of us. I'm using pharma now to treat my Lyme co-infection and immune deficiency both of which likely contributed to my cognitive decline. It's sad that some in mainstream medicine pit lifestyle against pharma. Undoubtably, BOTH will be necessary to deal with this multifactorial disease. I'm sending lots of love and healing energy your way. Keep fighting. XO

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Stavia
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby Stavia » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:57 pm

{{{Frank}}} {{{Sandy}}}
I'm here for you both whatever you need, always <3

AngieC
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby AngieC » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:58 am

To help lower homocysteine is better to use the B supplements individually or is there a B complex that is effective? Right now I'm using methlycobalamin, P5P and a methyl-folate individually - also, is there a general dosage recommendation. Homocysteine 13.6 Thanks

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SusanJ
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby SusanJ » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:50 am

Hi Angie,

The general recommended place to start with B vitamins is 800 mcg/day methyl-folate; 1 mg/day methyl-B12; and 50 mg/day B6 (as P5P). If that doesn’t lower it, add 500 mg/day TMG (and go up to 1 g/day if needed). These are best taken with food in the morning because they will likely provide an energy boost. If you get an over-active brain is reported, try lowering the folate to 0.4 mg/day.

Individual supps are useful to start to fiddle with dose, but yes, you can try any B complex that offers somewhere around those amounts. For TMG, I highly recommend Life Extension. It just works better than any other TMG I've tried to drive homocysteine down.

Have you done 23andme? If so, you might want to wade through the methylation wiki to zero in on what snps might be causing the high number. https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Methylation

Haslk
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby Haslk » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:41 pm

I just came across this topic in some research I was doing this morning and was tickled to find this thread on our forum...sadly, the links still don't seem to work...

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SusanJ
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby SusanJ » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Has, which links? Please let us know so if they are our links, we can fix them.

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Julie G
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby Julie G » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:23 pm

I instinctively knew which links. They're in the primer, now fixed. Sorry, Media Player is notorious for going out-of-date. I located access for you, Haslk. I highly recommend a listen. The nerd in me was riveted by both of these talks given by Drs. David Smith (Oxford) and Helga Refsum (university of Oslo.) See links below where they carefully outline the homocysteine connection to cognitive decline. You need to register with Nestle Nutrition Institute for free access. I promise it's worth it.
Dr. Smith: How Valid is the Homocysteine Hypothesis of Brain Disease?
Dr. Refsum: Vitamin B12 and the Brain

AngieC
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Re: The Homocysteine/AD connection

Postby AngieC » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:02 pm

So if you don't know the genetics, is it better not to take folate?


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