Vitamin K2

[Stavia]

I can try Richard. And yup, we get treated non-objectively sometimes...

[Tincup]

When I first had some calcification on a carotid ultrasound, did a many month experiment with lots of K2-MK7, 500-600 mcg/day. I did 2 more tests over 18 months, with no change. One year into the 18 months, got an EBCT scan with a result of CAC score of about 17. More recently have backed the K2-MK7 down to 200 mcg/day. I do consume 10,000 IU/day D3 per Gundry (I know your opinion of this) with a 25 OHD level of 96 in US units.

I wanted to repead the EBCT scan at a year per the Raggi paper. Then I started looking at it more closely. They excluded people from their study who had CAC levels <30. They also retested after 3 years. I could not convince myself that testing at a year would be meaningful with my score. Know that the issue is soft (vulnerable) plaque, not hard (stable - even large blockages) plaque . According to the Raggi study, if you can keep calcium volume (not CAC) increases to less than <15%, it is a dramatic risk reduction. I could not find any test that indicates soft plaque, except perhaps repeat EBCT scans.

Have a friend who is in same boat as your hubby (she also has high Lp(a), which she is reducing with diet & niacin).

I compiled my strategy at her request:
maintain 25 OHD, wtih K2 MK7 intake at 200 mcg
keep omega 3 index >10
sdLDL<30
keep IR metrics very low
keep all inflammation metrics very low
high intake of polyphenols

[Stavia]

Thanks George. We can't get omega 3 or sdLDL or advanced inflammatory markers here. All I have to go on is CRP <1 and apob in 25th centile on statin. Awaiting his Lp (a). I have tweaked the basic stuff like B12 D3 etc and have to guess the rest. I'm happy with his HDL and Trigs which are clearly not accurate markers and would have been falsely reassuring as his HDL is 1.32 and his Trigs 0.6. His fasting insulin is 7 and his Hba1c is 35 which is great as he doesn't eat HFLC.

[Russ]

Stavia,

Prior to my high calcium score I used a simple D3/K2 blend as well, but (like you) decided to step it up after. Went with blended Mk4/7 (1000/200 mcg) from LEF, just accepting the unnecessary K1. But I thought Chris Masterjohn made good point about not just accepting K1 in his recent podcast, so have just bought some "Full Spectrum" blend from Innovix Labs that has a Mk4/7 blend of 500/100 mcg. That all said, I recall from another source (maybe the Kresser podcast?)), that actual doses in studies were higher, but I see that the in the key foundational "Rotterdam Study" highest category was >278 mcg/d...
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/11/ ... nsion.html

Note that I think all of this K2 was from food, not supplements, though.

I have not retested (yet) so have no idea whether helping or not?

[Stavia]

thanks Russ. Sigh. What to do

[Russ]

Just reminding that the Rotterdam study was on K2 levels in food. Whereas natto always gets the attention, grassfed cheese and butter are the best sources I am aware of in food. So perhaps just adding more of that to the diet is the way to go. I primarily supplement because it's hard to find truly grassfed cheese and butter (not convinced Kerrygold is all that great?), but I think maybe you have more pasture-based options in NZ? You may remember that Weston A Price actually tracked K2 levels in butterfat by region and month and found that clearly the highest levels were present when the spring grass was growing fastest...

Weston Price Vit A & K.jpg

Chris Masterjohn explains why this happens in this classic post...
http://www.westonaprice.org/modern-dise ... olesterol/

"When grass rapidly grows, it ramps up its photosynthetic activity. Photosynthesis uses energy from sunlight and electrons from water to convert carbon dioxide to sugar, which is needed to fuel growth. Essential components of the photosynthetic machinery include chlorophyll, beta-carotene and vitamin K1.19 Chlorophyll imparts a deep green color to the grass. Cattle convert a portion of beta-carotene to vitamin A and a portion of vitamin K1 to vitamin K2. All four nutrients are present in the butterfat, and the beta-carotene imparts a yellow or even deeply orange color to it."

So maybe find some spring cheese and hoard it

[Stavia]

yip there is only grassfed available here but we dont eat butter at all and not much cheese. I can actually get biodynamic cheese so I know exactly what season it is, so mebbe that's an option.

[Stavia]

Followup on hubby. Saw non-patronising cardiologist on Friday. Took it all very seriously. Said definitely aspirin at calcium score >100. (His is 300 ish). Definitely statin ( he is on 10mg rosuvastatin. Remember I am pro statins in secondary prevention). He said an MRI angio is useless because he will have intraluminal plaque and we won't know what is significant. So he's doing a dobutamine stress echo looking for regional wall hypokinesis and proceeding to full angio if present.
He spent an entire hour talking to us. (Queen Bee bitch was max 5min pre treadmill and 5min post ).
He said 25% risk reduction from each of aspirin and statin - additive- and a further 15% lifestyle. Total 65% risk reduction from a baseline 20% 5 year risk.

Hubby has agreed to move the D3 to daily and he is taking K2. I've got him on LEF superK2 ( sorry its got K1 1500mcg). 1000mcg MK4 and 200mcg MK7.
My next step is omega3s

Thoughts?

[Stavia]

Oh! He also said there is a huge margin of error in serial coronary calcium scans. Thoughts George?

[christian.vuye]

Sorry to get a tiny bit off topic here, but I'm wondering what the role of supplemental Vitamin K supplementation would be over many years and decades as a preventative measure? Mind you, I'm 22 and goal is ultimate health and vitality for as long as possible. Are many people deficient in K2? What role does it exactly play in atherosclerosis?

By the way, per Dave Asprey's recommendations, I use Life Extension's Super K (link below). Any thoughts? Is this a good source?