Healing leaky gut

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Stavia
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Re: RE: Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby Stavia » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:37 am

Juliegee wrote:
Why did you drop your protein intake?

I thought I was optimizing my health by restricting methionine to extend longevity... and I'm not a big meat eater. I have to force it a bit.

Oh yes of course. I feel like we're chasing in circles. The CRON and vegan people tell us to reduce methionine which means reducing animal protein and then Terry Wahls and the ancestral people tell us to eat lots of organ meats and good quality animal protein daily. Round and round the rabbit holes we go....

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby BerniF » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:28 am

This is quite a good non techie overview on leaky gut

https://draxe.com/4-steps-to-heal-leaky-gut-and-autoimmune-disease/

General view is that if you can find and remove the triggers.....that's the tough bit, the gut will heal itself although you can help it along!
ApoE 3/4

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby TheBrain » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:49 pm

And here's Chris Kresser discussing testing for leaky gut in his podcast titled How To Tell If You Have A Leaky Gut, which you can listen to, watch, or read.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby TheBrain » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:22 pm

Juliegee wrote:Alysson, I learn something new every time you post! My head is spinning and I'm frankly struggling to understand all of this. I'm now questioning whether or not I even have a leaky gut. A partial excerpt from my physician's notes on my GI issues:
Primary initial interventions should be directed at your gastrointestinal health. We are seeing methane predominant SIBO, as well as a positive H. pylori stool antigen. Both of these can be very disruptive to your immune system, cause significant inflammation, and systemic health effects.


Julie, I don't see any hint of leaky gut in your physician's notes on your GI issues. I would say that dealing with SIBO and H. pylori is certainly enough to contend with, along with everything else.

I'm certain I have a SIBO and h.Pylori... less certain about the leaky gut :?. The handout I shared with you is specifically for treating SIBO. Until your post, I mistakenly thought that a SIBO was an imbalance between "good" and "bad" gut bacteria, but I now understand that is dysbiosis and a SIBO can be present with all good bacteria- which seems to be true in my case. I haven't started any of my formal treatment yet. I'm waiting for the meds and supplements to come in. I have begun daily bone broth. (As an aside, it's 100% fat free. I know that's come up on the forum before.) I used to drink it occasionally, but now do so every day in order to optimize my gut and immune system. I will also consider the slippery elm tea- thanks.


Thanks for clarifying that the handout you shared is specifically for treating SIBO. Still, some of it might help my situation. I know I'd at least like to try a new probiotic.

Re. animal protein, I've never eaten much- don't care for it, but am coming to realize that I was probably underconsuming it for my optimal health. At one point several years ago, I was religiously consuming 20% of my macronutrients from protein (plant & animal based) and my immune system was at it's healthiest- the bottom of the normal reference range for IgG. As I've lowered protein, my IgG levels have tanked. I've also lost muscle mass and my thyroid numbers are worsening. As I start to increase my protein levels, I feel overall stronger. Time will tell if it improves my immune and overall health. Honestly, because of the IVIG infusions, I probably won't know until I stop.


I'm so glad to hear you're feeling stronger already. That's a clear that you're moving in the right direction with everything you're now doing. What's important is doing what's right for your body.

Keep sharing your journey, Alysson. You're teaching me (and I suspect others) a lot. You've optimized so much of your health already. I'm beyond impressed not only with your improvement, but also your determination, and knowledge about all of this- kudos!. When it comes to GI health, I'm still struggling with basic definitions- SIgA, SIBO, etc. I've been working on my gut for a long time and I'm frankly stunned that I have a SIBO and h. Pylori. After a lifetime of very serious gut issues, I'm greatly improved and am hopeful that things keep moving in the right direction.


I'm glad my sharing is helpful. Sometimes, I feel like I should spend more time on AD and CVD medical research, which so many of you do and which is invaluable to all of us. But right now, I feel like I'm still putting on my oxygen mask before I can help others in that way; however, when I can share some information I've learned from my journey that might help someone else, I chime in.

I have no doubt you will keep things moving in the right direction. It sounds like you've got a great team in place, and you are highly motivated to get better.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby circular » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:34 pm

Just scanning this thread a bit and noting correspondence with some of my current thinking vis whey protein to counter catabolic/inflammatory states and reduced muscle strength. Trying not to hijack thread too far in that direction, but there appears to be overlap with the protein/immunoglobulin/gut integrity axis. I haven't had a chance to carefully read this whole thread, so apologies if whey has already been discussed.

I've been drawn to try whey protein for some time. I wanted to diversify my protein while maximizing benefits of resistance training, but the benefits may go beyond that? I think whey isolate is supposed to have less casein (lectin) than powder. I had a reaction using the powder that was consistent with my reactions to every other product containing casein, whether A1 or A2.

What caught my eye here is mention of low IgG which Juliegee mentioned having. I haven't had time to look at the interesting article about leaky gut = biome wonkiness + immune dysfunction. But just to note that a serving of Bluebonnet whey protein isolate delivers 520 mg of IgG. ([url]=https://www.altprotein.com/the-best-grass-fed-protein-supplements-to-consider/]It seems this brand may have higher levels than others?[/url]) I'm not sure if exogenous IgG is helpful?

I don't have time for the general rabbit hole as to whether whey protein is good for gut health or not. A number of sites talk about whey protein being good for gut health but there are detractors. Anyone looking at that avenue should compare denatured whey protein to non-denatured whey protein.

Possible downside is it's supposed to spike insulin, but building muscle should increase insulin sensitivity and I'm wondering if that would be enough to offset the insulin spikes, clearing it fast enough for it not to stay around and do damage, especially when insulin is otherwise kept low by diet and exercise.

I'm thinking about using the whey protein, if I don't react, in the context of a cyclical ketogenic diet, doing higher carbs and whey around more strenuous workouts and keto during rest days/hours, that would include the long night fast.

[url]=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26566405]This paper[/url]suggests eating 25-30 gms high quality protein three times a day to counteract muscle breakdown. I think this must have to do with apparently all proteins but whey are *slow acting* and help prevent muscle breakdown. Frequent moderate doses may help keep a steady supply of amino acids going so muscles don't get a chance to break down. Whey, being a *fast protein*, stimulates muscle growth/repair by spiking the available amino acids after a workout. One site, not by a professional, suggesting both slow and fast proteins are ideal for muscle health.

I think a number of us have histories of gut issues + inflammatory conditions + compromised muscle integrity, at least at different times in life. It may be that we need to be much more creative, dynamic and versatile about eating/diet regimens, with a focus on stopping catabolic processes first.

I'll be interested if anyone has looked closely at whey and gut health.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby apod » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:37 pm

circular wrote:Just scanning this thread a bit and noting correspondence with some of my current thinking vis whey protein to counter catabolic/inflammatory states and reduced muscle strength. Trying not to hijack thread too far in that direction, but there appears to be overlap with the protein/immunoglobulin/gut integrity axis. I haven't had a chance to carefully read this whole thread, so apologies if whey has already been discussed.

I've been drawn to try whey protein for some time. I wanted to diversify my protein while maximizing benefits of resistance training, but the benefits may go beyond that? I think whey isolate is supposed to have less casein (lectin) than powder. I had a reaction using the powder that was consistent with my reactions to every other product containing casein, whether A1 or A2.

What caught my eye here is mention of low IgG which Juliegee mentioned having. I haven't had time to look at the interesting article about leaky gut = biome wonkiness + immune dysfunction. But just to note that a serving of Bluebonnet whey protein isolate delivers 520 mg of IgG. ([url]=https://www.altprotein.com/the-best-grass-fed-protein-supplements-to-consider/]It seems this brand may have higher levels than others?[/url]) I'm not sure if exogenous IgG is helpful?

I don't have time for the general rabbit hole as to whether whey protein is good for gut health or not. A number of sites talk about whey protein being good for gut health but there are detractors. Anyone looking at that avenue should compare denatured whey protein to non-denatured whey protein.

Possible downside is it's supposed to spike insulin, but building muscle should increase insulin sensitivity and I'm wondering if that would be enough to offset the insulin spikes, clearing it fast enough for it not to stay around and do damage, especially when insulin is otherwise kept low by diet and exercise.

I'm thinking about using the whey protein, if I don't react, in the context of a cyclical ketogenic diet, doing higher carbs and whey around more strenuous workouts and keto during rest days/hours, that would include the long night fast.

[url]=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26566405]This paper[/url]suggests eating 25-30 gms high quality protein three times a day to counteract muscle breakdown. I think this must have to do with apparently all proteins but whey are *slow acting* and help prevent muscle breakdown. Frequent moderate doses may help keep a steady supply of amino acids going so muscles don't get a chance to break down. Whey, being a *fast protein*, stimulates muscle growth/repair by spiking the available amino acids after a workout. One site, not by a professional, suggesting both slow and fast proteins are ideal for muscle health.

I think a number of us have histories of gut issues + inflammatory conditions + compromised muscle integrity, at least at different times in life. It may be that we need to be much more creative, dynamic and versatile about eating/diet regimens, with a focus on stopping catabolic processes first.

I'll be interested if anyone has looked closely at whey and gut health.

I've used whey a bunch. A long time ago, I did a food allergy panel, where whey came back as having a mildly allergic reaction -- I'd be curious to read more about whether this is from the immune-boosting components in whey (and thus a positive thing?) or if this is a potential issue for inflammation / gut health and something I'm borderline allergic to and should avoid. Treenuts showed a similar result in my food allergy panel at the time -- this could also be a false positive. Dave Asprey sells a whey protein + colostrum powder, but recommends using it at low dosages to avoid gut / inflammation issues.

I've used Jay Robb's WPI, NutraBio's WPI, Asprey's Upgraded Whey, Goat Whey, Goat Milk Protein, and Well Wisdom's WPC. I find when mixed with food as a smoothie or tossed over frozen berries, whey protein (both isolate + concentrate) uniquely gives me some bad gas... up there with cauliflower. The combination of a whey protein + veg shake and a side of steamed cauliflower is just ridiculous. :lol: As such, I generally mix it with a little bit of water + salt + cacao + vanilla + stevia, or have it with a nut milk away from food in the post-workout window. I haven't made up my mind on whether it makes more sense to go with an isolate (and remove potentially oxidized fats + cholesterol through a rough process, which might further oxidize what remains), or to go with a concentrate and get a less refined product.

Lately, I've been reading some interesting things about camel milk wrt gut health + immune function, but haven't stumbled across it in my local grocery stores.

Personally, I might go with something like L-Glutamine + NAC + bone broth for gut health over whey.

This was an interesting article on the amount of protein the body can use in a single meal:
http://atlargenutrition.com/is-there-a- ... ngle-meal/

From the leangains website: "One of my clients, showing symptoms of profound catabolism by impaired protein absorption and daily 16 hour periods of fasting" (pic)

I'm currently playing around with a sort of low carb + MCT supplemented diet, cycled with periods of higher carb / lower fat eating. I'm using EAAs / BCAAs intra-workout, and have currently ditched the whey for meat + eggs + seafood with a higher intake of glycine + methyl donors for supporting methionine metabolism. This certainly increases muscle mass in place of fat mass, but I can't quite make up my mind whether this is working for my larger health goals or against them. Ymmv.

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby slacker » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:27 am

In case you are not aware of him; Dr Gerard Mullin is a fantastic functional medicine gastroenterologist out of Johns Hopkins. He has two books out that you might find helpful: The Inside Track and The Gut Balance Revolution. The second book is written as a "weight loss book"; my theory is that book publishers insist on this for higher sales. :evil: Dr Mullin also edited an Integrative Gastroenterology book; it is more for practitioners than laypeople and the price reflects that. I've heard Dr Mullin lecture; he is a kind thoughtful medical doctor. For what it's worth...
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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby Tiramisu1984 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:32 am

Alysson (and others), how did your re-introductions go on the AIP? Were able to successfully add spices, etc.?

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby TheBrain » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:27 pm

slacker wrote:In case you are not aware of him; Dr Gerard Mullin is a fantastic functional medicine gastroenterologist out of Johns Hopkins. He has two books out that you might find helpful: The Inside Track and The Gut Balance Revolution. The second book is written as a "weight loss book"; my theory is that book publishers insist on this for higher sales. :evil: Dr Mullin also edited an Integrative Gastroenterology book; it is more for practitioners than laypeople and the price reflects that. I've heard Dr Mullin lecture; he is a kind thoughtful medical doctor. For what it's worth...


A belated thank you for mentioning Dr. Mullin. I've added his two books to my Amazon.com Wish List. Both sound great, but his most recent one draws me a bit more, though certainly not for the purpose of losing weight. You're probably right that the publisher insisted on the weight loss angle.

I'm in information overload from attending so many summits recently and from now taking an online course for increasing my energy (Ari Whitten's The Energy Blueprint).
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!

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Re: Healing leaky gut

Postby TheBrain » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:06 pm

Tiramisu1984 wrote:Alysson (and others), how did your re-introductions go on the AIP? Were able to successfully add spices, etc.?


I learned that I'm sensitive to eggs. I had no idea until I attempted (a few times) to reintroduce them. I can have some avocado mayo with a little egg in it and do fine, but it appears that my days of eating whole eggs are over. I'm really bummed about that. Oddly enough, based on my testing, it's about the egg yolk, not the egg white (it's the opposite for most people with egg sensitivities).

I'm still sensitive to all dairy (even goat dairy), except for ghee (clarified butter). Chocolate is still out.

I haven't formally tested all the fruit- and seed-based spices, as I don't use many of them in my cooking. But I found that I'm fine with black pepper, vanilla bean, sesame seed (and tahini), and paprika.

Cayenne pepper is out, though. So I'm reluctant to try to re-introduce anything else that's a nightshade like chili pepper (or chili powder), red pepper, tomato, potato, eggplant, sweet bell peppers, etc. But I really should trial them one at a time.

I was able to re-introduce macademia nuts (but no more than 10 a day) as well as almond butter (but no more than 2 TB a day) and almond flour. But I have trouble digesting whole almonds. I really need to try soaking and sprouting them. Walnuts are still out. I've eaten a few cashews, brazil nuts, and hazelnuts here and there and did fine. But I didn't do a formal test of them.

I’ve also safely reintroduced green beans, green peas, ground flax seed, and small amounts of alcohol every now and then.

I didn't try re-introducing coffee, as I never drank it. I haven't tried soaking and sprouting legumes.

I also learned accidentally that xanthan gum inflames my gut big-time. On the AIP, it's supposed to be removed permanently.

Of course, I was hoping to re-introduce everything w/o any issues. But there's still plenty I can eat.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!


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