Mold and mycotoxins

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slacker
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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TheBrain wrote: Slacker, are you in the midst of remediation or is it done? I gather small particle cleaning comes after remediation, so your comment above suggests to me your remediation is complete. Would you mind sharing your experience with remediation and what else you’ve done with respect to small particle cleaning? For example, did you get rid of all of your books or were you able to clean them somehow?
I view small particle air cleaning as part of the Shoemaker remediation process. If mold fragments are not removed from the air and home surfaces (walls, floors, cabinets, non-porous furniture, etc), the remediation is likely to fail, according to this approach. And yes, this occurs after water incursion is solved and the actual mold is removed.

We have been working with a Shoemaker trained Indoor Environmental Professional, and a remediation company trained by this man, both in the Chicago area. These resources are not available where we live; it was impossible to find someone local to do this kind of work.

Before going into gory details of my “journey” with mold remediation, let me try to answer TheBrain’s question of what we got rid of. We culled out our collection of books. Of books remaining, if it had visible mold on it (and many did), we threw it out. All other books were cleaned before returning to the house; special wash on outside, then air blowing of pages. We got rid of all upholstered furniture (porous) with the exception of our dining room chair cushions, which we had re-upholstered. The carpet and ceiling tiles in the basement were thrown out. All clothing was washed with detergent and borax or dry cleaned. Anything we could not take care of prior to remediation was put in storage. There may be other steps we took, but they are not coming to mind at the moment.

A complete remediation, performed by the remediation company mentioned above, occurred Oct 2018. This started after we had local workers 1) repair plumbing indicating prior leaks and 2) redirect one basement window drainage system where a leak had occurred during a massive amount of rain with soil saturation. After remediation, we retested mold DNA via HERTSMI-2, which covers 5 toxic mold species most likely to cause CIRS. The results were improved but not adequate. Since then, we've been trying to isolate the source of the problem, with increasingly worse levels of some of these mold species - both water loving and water neutral. The current theory is that the worsening of water loving mold is coming from water damage in the basement due to seepage from outside; we have had an enormous amount of rain here. My husband sampled one piece of the basement paneling in front of one of our crawlspaces; it was wet. The worsening of water neutral mold species is believed to be from outside air coming into the house and getting trapped. I wonder if water neutral mold is obligate and can grow under wet and dry conditions.

The next step is to better seal off our 2 basement crawl spaces and remove all paneling in the basement. If there are cracks in the concrete, they will need to be sealed. It may be necessary to install better drainage. So we will be in active exploration mode to determine water sources and fix what is found. A “touch” up small particle air and surface cleaning is recommended on the main floor. The majority of this work will be done by our traveling remediation company. Also recommended is installation of a house wide positive pressure air system to better circulate incoming and outgoing air to reduce levels of water neutral mold that are most likely are coming from outside. We have the option of waiting on this pending re-testing of the basement and main floor after 2nd iteration of remediation, to determine if it is necessary.

It is always an option to bail and find somewhere else to live. In our state, house sellers are legally obligated to disclose mold. Much of the work in the basement would need to be done prior to selling, or the cost of the work could be deducted from the price of the house. As far as looking for another home in the same community, we live in a wet humid environment so the risk of similar mold conditions at other places is high. My husband’s family, including his 83 year old mother, live here; moving somewhere with a drier climate is possible but highly unlikely due to his family ties.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Slacker, you and your husband are on quite a "journey." I'm sorry you have faced so many challenges and continue to face them. I understand why you are sticking with the process, given your family ties in the area, the wet humid environment in your community, and the fact that this mold issue would need to be disclosed to buyers and dealt with one way or another anyway.

Thanks for sharing the details with us. I applaud your steadfast determination to resolve these issues.

That's a good question as to whether water neutral mold can grow under wet and dry conditions. If you find an answer to that, please let us know.

Best of luck with your next steps. I hope that your re-testing of the basement and main floor, when you get to that point, show the results you're looking for.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Just an FYI... Air Oasis air purifiers are $100 off any portable air purifiers - no matter what size! (usually its the biggest, most expensive ones) The sale goes through Monday, September 2nd. The iAdapt Air series of portable air purifiers was recommended to me for mold.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Slacker, what was the special wash you used on the books you kept? I don’t have any visible mold on any of my books, but I’m purging many of them and cleaning the rest. I’m sick of dusting them (which is only somewhat helpful) and buying enclosed bookcases.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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TheBrain wrote:Slacker, what was the special wash you used on the books you kept?
A solution of one part grain alcohol to 7 parts water was recommended for all non porous surfaces, including external surfaces of books. Use a terry cloth rag cut in small sections. After the cleaned surface has dried, wipe down with a clean swiffer, two times with 2 separate swiffer cloths. Both clean and swiffer in a methodical linear way, not rubbing the same part of the surface twice. Do not reuse the cloth or swiffers; discard in plastic bags.

We used cheap vodka as our grain alcohol of choice (to clean with, not drink!), adjusting ratio to water based on alcohol content of vodka. 80 proof vodka ended up being a 1: 2 1/3 vodka to water ratio.

The pages of the books can be air cleaned with compressed air. Instead of using multiple cans used for dust cleaning computers, we used a leaf blower. We did this outside before bringing the books back into the house.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Thanks, Slacker. Did you do this book cleaning yourself or did the traveling remediation team do it for you? And am I understanding correctly that you used the leaf blower to clean individual pages of each book?

I’m amazed by all the varying advice. I read advice (can’t recall from where) to keep my books closed and then to use an air compressor on the outside of each book. The hypothesis (my choice of word) is that any contamination wouldn’t have gotten inside the books just by having the closed books on a bookshelf. This advice was just for books without any visible mold on them and to throw away books with visible mold.

My FM practitioner suggested I not get rid of any of my books (again, I didn’t have visible mold on them), but as a precaution, use them with my Air Doctor nearby (she has mold illness and this has worked for her). A mold-savvy architect I’ve consulted with has advised I get rid of all of my books. But she also said “listen to your symptoms.” Some people are more sensitive than others.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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We did the book cleaning ourselves. We did not air blow each page, mostly done with the books closed. We decided to do as much as we could, since no one knows exactly what interventions will be adequate to push us into the green mold level zone. Dr Jill Carnahan shares a personal story of not getting over her mold illness until she got rid of all her books, including medical texts.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Reviving this thread with a question: I heard in an email from Great Plains that taking glutathione for the week prior to collecting a urine sample skews the reports either up or down??? This has been the recommended way of collecting, and I did it consistently over
two samples. My first sample was high and my second was low. What would you do with these results? Why would glutathione skew mycotoxin clearance in both directions?
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Daymoo wrote:Reviving this thread with a question: I heard in an email from Great Plains that taking glutathione for the week prior to collecting a urine sample skews the reports either up or down??? This has been the recommended way of collecting, and I did it consistently over two samples. My first sample was high and my second was low. What would you do with these results? Why would glutathione skew mycotoxin clearance in both directions?
Daymoo, I'm sorry I missed your post. I'm not familiar with this claim from Great Plains, and it doesn't make sense to me. Would you consider quoting the text here?

My FM practitioner says that taking glutathione prior to collecting a sample helps to release mycotoxins from the body through the urine. So this could skew the results up. However, for people who have trouble with detoxification, using glutathione prior to collection can give them an (accurate) positive result instead of an (inaccurate) negative result.

I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like the fact that your second test was low in mycotoxins suggests you are detoxing well. Were your results low, but still considered positive?

P.S. Are you aware that you can get a free 30-minute consultation with each test you order through Great Plains? I've taken advantage of that service with the three GPL-MycoTOX tests and two organic acids tests I've had done through this lab. You might consider discussing the matter you raise with a Great Plains consultant and ask the person what your results mean.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Okay, so here’s an update. I’ve had two Great Plains organic acids tests in recent months. The first one showed a bunch of markers that were off. I learned I had candida overgrowth and a Clostridia infection. My FM practitioner recommended Biocidin to treat those infections. I also had markers for mitochondrial function and fatty acid metabolism that were off, along with others.

My most recent test showed that the Clostridia infection was gone, but I still had candida overgrowth. It was somewhat better, but not cleared. Two markers for Aspergillus increased significantly, and the Great Plains expert I consulted with said it’s clear now that I have mold colonization. My FM practitioner agrees, and I’ve started a prescription for Nystatin, which, I’m told, is very effective at treating both mold and candida.

My most recent test also showed that my markers that were already off were even more off. And even some that were normal before are now off. My FM practitioner believes the mold colonization could be causing all of that.

It’s clear that the mold colonization is in my gut, not my sinuses or respiratory system. I also had a MARCoNS test done recently via a deep nasal swab. I am MARCoNS positive, but there was no biofilm. This test showed I had no other bacteria or any yeast or mold in my sinuses. My practitioner recommended I not treat the MARCoNS because there was no biofilm. She said my immune system should be able to clear it.

There’s some disagreement about whether to treat MARCoNS in my case. Dr. Shoemaker says not to. However, my MSH is low, and MARCoNS causes low MSH. Low MSH could be the root cause or at least a contributor to my insomnia. So I’ll probably revisit that if clearing the mold in my body doesn’t address my insomnia.

And yes, there is disagreement as to whether mold can actually colonize in the body and generate mycotoxins internally.

There is a question as to whether I’m still being exposed to mold. We had Aspergillus in our crawl space, but it’s been remediated to what I believe is to a sufficient degree. But any building I spend time in here in coastal North Carolina could be mold contaminated. Last week, I ate dinner at a restaurant that had been severely damaged by Hurricane Florence. The building looks fine now, but we know that doesn’t mean there isn’t mold contamination in there. So many buildings here have experienced water damage.

My practitioner has asked me: Do I really want to live in this area? She asks herself the same question. She, too, has mold illness.
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