Mold and mycotoxins

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Jan
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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david lerner wrote:Hi,
I'm a Bredesen trained clinician (I need to post my info on the clinician list), and have been working on treating a mycotoxin infection in myself for the past couple years, and making good progress.
David,

I hope you don’t mind me copying a portion of your post from another thread here. My question for you is (I think) unrelated to mold remediation.

It’s wonderful that you are making good progress with treating a mycotoxin infection within your own body. However, I feel some concern when you say you’ve been working on this issue for the past couple of years. Why does healing take so long?

I’m perhaps naively thinking I’ll be feeling great within six months of beginning treatment for mold illness, though I might end up needing to do more. For one thing, I haven’t yet done the ERMI test on my home. I know that ongoing and/or new exposures to toxic mold can complicate healing.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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HI,
I think it varies based on the individual, but mycotoxins can be tenacious and can take years to treat, depending on severity of the case and whether or not the person is still being exposed. A lot of folks are inadvertently being exposed/re-exposed and will likely see limited progress until the exposures are minimized.

Best,
David
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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PS: Working with a very knowledgable mold inspector, and mycotoxin literate functional medicine clinician is vital. I can highly recommend Jason Kester, Kester Clear Mold in Seattle (he travels) and Neil Nathan, MD - http://www.neilnathanmd.com/

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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Here's a 35-page report I just read: Mold Toxins & Related Illness — Cause & Effect Implications for Mold Sensitive Adults and Children. The author, Gary Rosen, Ph.D, is the president of Certified Mold & Allergen Free Corp. He's a biochemist and a state (Florida) licensed mold assessor, mold remediator, building contractor, and state-licensed mold training provider. Dr. Rosen has written a number of books on mold.

Here are summaries of the five sections he covers in his report:
1. Most inhaled mold spores are quickly cleared from the upper respiratory system before reaching the lungs. They are then deposited into the gut for later excretion in the stool. Most inhaled mold spores are effectively eaten. As a result, mold toxin exposure in the indoor environment is predominantly through the digestive tract and not respiratory system.

2. Since mold toxin exposure in the indoor environment is predominantly through the digestive tract and not respiratory system, the thousands of studies on illnesses caused by ingesting mold toxins (mycotoxins) are applicable to indoor environmental exposure to mold. There is a great deal of accepted, non-controversial medical science on mycotoxin exposure via the digestive tract including concrete proof of cancer, immune suppression; neurological impairment; and harm to intestinal lining & gut microflora and other serious ailments.

3. Historically it has been claimed that it is not possible to establish thresholds for exposure levels of indoor mold. It has been claimed that it is not possible to prove an indoor environment is problematic. We will show otherwise.

4. Toxin producing molds are always present in water damaged homes and are always producing toxins.

5. Indoor mold exposure is hazardous, especially to children.
I found the entire report of interest, but I'll highlight a few things here:
Mold hidden inside of walls even if extensive, if there is no active water source so the mold is no longer active, does not generally result in illness or irritation because mold exposure (see Mold Basics) is limited. Exposure to indoor mold toxins requires that the toxin containing mold spores be airborne so they can be inhaled. Generally speaking, mold trapped inside of walls results in limited exposure to occupants.

Health problems resulting from mold toxin exposure are almost always related to mold contaminated ducting and/or AC [air conditioner]— no matter how many times the AC or ducting has been “cleaned”. Even if there is only a small amount of mold growth in the AC or ducting, occupants will be constantly exposed — constantly breathing mold spores and their toxins — with resultant illness and/or irritation when occupants are mold sensitive. Duct cleaners are neither licensed nor trained to deal with mold. Even if a new AC has been installed, the problem is almost always AC, AC closet and/or ducting related. Fixing (remediating) the problem/damaged house or office is generally straightforward when the problem is properly diagnosed. Oftentimes repair of the individual is not so simple and will require treatment under Doctor supervision.
The principal route of exposure from breathing mold toxins is via the gut and not the lungs. Subsequently, a common result of elevated mycotoxin exposure is damage to gut microflora.
No carb/no sugar diets will be naturally low in consumed/eaten mycotoxins. And that's a good thing for those with elevated levels of mycotoxins in their system.

Note that research has shown that organic grains and fruits are often high in mycotoxins because antifungals are not used during the growth cycle or after harvest. So you cannot fix the gut problem by "going organic." It can make matters worse.
Although not common, molds have been found growing in the brain as well as the lungs. See case study by Thrasher et al. of a deceased child where mold was found growing in the child’s brain (eating his brain) as a result of living in a water damaged home. The Thrasher paper has an excellent, concise review of molds and their secondary metabolites (toxins/immunosuppressives).
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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david lerner wrote:HI,
I think it varies based on the individual, but mycotoxins can be tenacious and can take years to treat, depending on severity of the case and whether or not the person is still being exposed. A lot of folks are inadvertently being exposed/re-exposed and will likely see limited progress until the exposures are minimized.
Thanks, David. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to hope I'm an easy case (if there is such a thing).
david lerner wrote:PS: Working with a very knowledgable mold inspector, and mycotoxin literate functional medicine clinician is vital. I can highly recommend Jason Kester, Kester Clear Mold in Seattle (he travels) and Neil Nathan, MD - http://www.neilnathanmd.com/
I appreciate these referrals. I've read some of the content on their web sites and have bookmarked them. They both sound great. If I have to go the route of out-of-town experts on the other side of the country, I will. But at this early stage of my healing, I'm going to hope I don't need to. For one thing, my symptoms precede living in this house my husband and I bought two years ago. We will do the ERMI test, and if it shows a problem, then I'll research mold inspectors. I'm just not there yet. And Shoemaker-trained Sonia Rapaport is within driving distance of me; my FM practitioner recommends her more difficult cases to her. Dr. Rapaport would likely be my first choice. She'll still challenge my budget, even without getting on a plane. :)

That said, I welcome knowing of experts who come highly recommended. I'll definitely keep Jason Kester and Neil Nathan in mind as I progress on my healing journey.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Yesterday, I listened to this podcast, in which Jill Carnahan, MD, is interviewed by Dr. Michael Ruscio. Dr. Carnahan is the CIRS expert who lives in Boulder and has a long waiting list. At this link, you can download the podcast and/or read the transcript.

Mold, Mycotoxins, and CIRS with Dr. Jill Carnahan

One thing that has perplexed me about my CIRS test results is that I have a normal C4a (at least I did when I was tested on 6/8/2016). I've read and heard over and over that an elevated C4a is a key biomarker for mold illness.

Well, according to Dr. Carnahan, if a patient's C4a is elevated, "it’s very likely that they’ve had a recent mold exposure."

I wanted to confirm this information because I'm hoping my home is relatively mold free (I just ordered my ERMI test kit today). I found the following tidbits from Dr. Carnahan in the comments section under her blog post, The Low Mold Diet. I've excerpted the relevant text below.
February 26, 2016 at 9:10 pm
Elevated C4a is related to acute exposure so the most important thing is to get out of the place where you are being exposed or remediate.
May 29, 2016 at 6:53 pm
C4a will go down a few weeks after you avoid exposure.
Also, today I spoke with an analyst at Mycometrics, where I ordered the ERMI test kit. I asked if it's possible that my home environment could be relatively free of mold (safe for me as a CIRS patient), but I could be sick from prior mold exposure—even from years ago. She said yes.

In my case, my symptoms precede living in my current home, which my husband and I bought two years ago. However, I have had multiple prior mold exposures. So my fingers are crossed, hoping my ERMI results will come back showing that I am, indeed, living in a relatively mold-free home.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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Here’s a list of Mold Illness Discussion Forums. All but one are Facebook groups.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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TheBrain wrote:I took your advice and called Cortechslabs. The customer support person I spoke with said that the Triage Brain Atrophy Report is for people with traumatic brain injury. Based on what I described about myself (Alzheimer's genetics and mold illness), she said that the reports that apply to me are the Age Related Atrophy Report and the General Morphometry Report. She said my data hasn't yet been submitted to their cloud software, so she suggested I call the imaging center to ensure that both reports are generated for me. I've called the imaging center and am awaiting a call back.

I asked her if any brain damage from my hypoxia during sleep for 3+ years while living at high altitude would show up on any of their NeuroQuant reports. She said no. The neurofeedback therapist I saw last year told me that the hypoxia I experienced could result in atrophy across the entire brain. So I'm surprised this wouldn't show up somehow in any NeuroQuant report. But what do I know?
I need to update this information. The Triage Brain Atrophy Report was, in fact, one of the three NeuroQuant reports I received (despite what I was told by Cortechs Labs customer support). The report is very useful in that it shows the percentile you fall into for the volumes of various brain structures as compared to other people your age and gender. You get a Z-score for each structure, which shows a positive or negative number. If you're below the mean for a particular structure, you get a negative number. If you're above the mean for a particular structure, you get a positive number.

Also, I now believe that brain damage from hypoxia during sleep can show up in the NeuroQuant reports. I suspect the Cortechs person I spoke with said it didn't because there are no studies to support such a finding. However, I've since learned from a neurologist that hypoxia over time such as I experienced (and from sleep apnea over time) can cause generalized brain volume loss. And, IMO, generalized brain volume loss would inevitably show up in the NeuroQuant data with a certain pattern. I don't know precisely what that pattern would be, although I suspect one might have a lot of negative numbers in numerous brain structures.

I'm having trouble getting my NeuroQuant reports interpreted in a way that my doctor (and I!) can fully understand. Ideally, the radiologist who wrote the report on my MRI images would also write a report on my NeuroQuant findings. However, that's beyond the scope of his practice (or of any radiologist in his network of three or so imaging centers). I find that shocking.

So... my doctor is ordering a “second read” with a radiologist who can interpret both my MRI images and my NeuroQuant data, which will be most valuable. The process of getting that going is starting today. I found out about the company through an online search. It's called Advanced Radiology; their URL is http://www.radnet.com. My health insurance should cover it.
Last edited by TheBrain on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mold and mycotoxins

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I ordered my ERMI test kit from Mycometrics.com and have the kit in hand. To get a basic understanding of ERMI and how it works, I found it helpful to read the ERMI Basics post from Greg at Biotoxin Journey.

I want my home to be as "average" as possible. The more "average" my home is, the more accurate the ERMI values will be. Here's what Greg wrote about that (read the post if you want to understand the technical details):
Roughly speaking, the average age of a home in the U.S. is 35 years, with a little over three occupants, and 50% have either a cat or a dog. Based upon my own experience, the carpeting is probably 10 years old, gets cleaned once a year, and although occupants do take off their shoes, they aren’t fanatical about it. You know, average.

So what if you’re a clean freak? Well, mold spores and fragments are everywhere. They’re so tiny, every time you open a window or walk through the door; they enter the building, drift about, and eventually settle to the floor or surface of some sort. That influx is more or less constant and inevitable.

Now let’s say there are two homes next door to each other. Both homes are identical track homes built at the same time and with the same materials. Neither home has an indoor mold problem. Let’s say that in the first house, a very neat retired woman lives. She never wears her shoes indoors. She replaces her carpeting every 5 years.

In the second house, let’s say there is a couple with three kids, a dog, and a cat. The kids are supposed to keep up with chores but the bottom line is it’s hard to keep the house clean. They can’t afford to replace the carpeting.

How will the ERMI scores compare? Remember, ERMI values for each of the molds are given in the number of Spore Equivalent for every milligram of dirt. If the amount of dirt being deposited is greater than average (the denominator is bigger), the[n] each of the mold counts on the ERMI report will be smaller than what it should be. Likewise, if the amount of dirt being deposited is less than average (the denominator is smaller) the mold counts will be skewed higher.

So both homes do an ERMI. Not surprisingly, the home with the single woman comes back very high. The neighbor’s home comes back a little below average. Happily, the woman knows that ERMI results can sometimes be off and calls in a mold expert. The expert knows its important not to simply dismiss a high ERMI score even though he suspects the very clean home and newer carpeting skewed the results. Two side-by-side Swiffer Cloth samples are taken as I’ve described in the article Mold Testing, and the house is shown to be fine.
So right now, I'm letting my home get a bit dusty before using the cloth from Mycometrics to collect my ERMI sample.

Also, I spoke with a woman at Mycometrics. She said that if I want a general idea of how moldy my house is, I can use the single cloth in my kit to collect dust from up to 10 rooms. Because we have a dog and sometimes wear our shoes inside, I should not collect samples from the floor. So I need to collect dust from above floor level. In addition, we have been using a fireplace frequently this winter. She said to avoid collecting dust on or near the fireplace. Lastly, it is fine for me to cover the entire cloth with dust.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!
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