Calorie restriction (CR)

[Gilgamesh]

Thanks for sharing your experience, you sound like a CR expert. I'd be interested to see you post a How To CR topic.

Me too.

The publication deadline for the text I'm working on is March 7. My avail. from now till then is hard to predict, but I should find a bit of time here and there.

Instead of writing a How To, best for me would be for me to get PDFs of the newest CR books and distribute them to those of you interested. I know the authors so it might be possible. Otherwise, they're available very cheaply online. (Walford's books: generally best but now somewhat out of date. And The CR Way focuses a bit too much on glucose control in my view, but is otherwise good.)

Quick points you won't find in the books:

It's now clear that different benefits of CR appear with diff. levels of restriction, and which benefits appear when may vary, as well.

For me, greatly improved lipids (changed within days) and glucose metabolism took place without being on CR at a level where I was cold and had reduced sex drive. But my blood pressure didn't move too much (actually: I'm not sure; but it didn't move ENOUGH). But that might just be me. Everyone in my family had to go on BP meds in their 40s. I was the excpetion, but not a radical exception (BP: 130/70 on moderate CR -- that's freakishly high for a CR person). I had to take it down to the "now I'm a eunich" level to get my BP to 95-100/50-55, which is where I want it.

This sounds like an unpleasant and stressful state.

Then it's not for you! Some people love it. A lot of men have, like I currently do, testosterone below the ref. range, and say they feel great: lots of energy, and "at peace" (the very expression many use). And those living in the tropics save big on AC-related elec. bills.

Perpetual hunger doesn't seem like a good sign.

It's a great sign: it means your body's in survival mode. But it wouldn't be fun, if it's perpetual and constant. Fortunately, infreq. meal eating means the hunger is localized to the time before the meal. So perpetual, yes, but not constant.

Actually: not perpetual. Not likely anyway. MMost CRers think: "OK, this is obviously the best thing for health and longevity (hunger and other unpleasant consequences aside). I'll do it until something better (like a CR-mimetic) comes along, which should be by 2015-2020."

That's how I look at it too. Resveratrol probably isn't a good CR-mimetic, but there are lots of other anti-aging drugs in the pipeline. CR is a stopgap measure for me, and for most longevists on CR.

Does not sound sustainable for most people.

I think you're right. Pewrsonally, I'm really glad I'm not most people. It could save my life.

GB

[MarkES]

Gigamesh,

Thanks for posting some additional info and references. Would Walford's most recent book, Beyond The 120-Year Diet, be the best one to start with in your opinion?

That's pretty interesting about your BP improvement. Sounds like a strong genetic factor, but why do you want it so low?

Certainly having a life threatening situation can be enough motivation to stick to it.

Thanks,
Mark

[SpunkyPup]

There is a book called The Caloric Restriction Way or something like that that I got from Life extension foundation but just looking at the diet I find it really not well thought out or even worth trying.

CR is not good if you are distracted by hunger and it is bad for concentration and the mind.
this is not uptodate but looks like he lost interest at least in blogging or has nothing new to add.
http://www.benbest.com/calories/calories.html

[lol]

Caloric restriction would be hard for most people and not for everyone.

My blood pressure is 90/60, maybe from years of running. I also eat so much food, and always have - way more than most people I know. My weight moved up to around 100 pounds at age 12, and his remained within a few pounds (except during pregnancies). I am 5'5", not a shrimp-o. So, I don't know how I could do it. My metabolism must be pretty weird.

Yet, who is a 4/4 and on caloric restriction with no amyloid build-up? Gigamesh. And what about his low LDLs? He is on to something that works for him, possibly for most of us; he should not be discouraged from this path he has chosen.

[Gilgamesh]

Gigamesh,

Thanks for posting some additional info and references.

More on the way (at some point)!

Would Walford's most recent book, Beyond The 120-Year Diet, be the best one to start with in your opinion?

I'd say so, yes. The details are out of date (I'll write up a list of needed emendations at some point), but reading that book is a great intro not just to CR, but to the art of interpreting life-extension studies.

That's pretty interesting about your BP improvement. Sounds like a strong genetic factor, but why do you want it so low?

Everything I've read indicates: unless you're passing out, the lower the better. Same with fasting glucose: unless you've got symptoms of hypoglycemia, the lower the better. (My fasting glucose is consistently 69-71 mg/dL on CR (highish fat, lowfat, whatever: doesn't matter, as long as I'm on CR, even non-extreme CR.)

GB

[Gilgamesh]

CR is not good if you are distracted by hunger

Very true.

and it is bad for concentration and the mind.

Very not true.

CR'ers report greatly enhanced concentration. But it may be sample bias (people willing to go on more than merely moderate CR are often ambitious and focused and find the pre-meal hunger pangs function like a mantra, bringing them back to their "center").

As for the "mind": nothing preserves cognitive function in old age better than CR. The science is clear on that. The question isn't about the science, it's about whether or not one wants to follow a diet that, for some, can be very difficult (for lots of reasons: social difficulties are cited most often, after the hunger).

GB

[lol]

I can't give blood with my low blood pressure; I pass out. Also have to be very careful when I bend over and then stand up. I can handle it, because I recognize the situations where I might go down.

You can develop habits, just like brushing your teeth or running every day. After a while, your habit becomes normal - just what you do. You can still go out to dinner and socialize. You just order what works for you and have fun.

My husband practices partial CR, started way before discovering his 3/4 self. Now he does cardio, as well. Plus, the vitamins we are now taking -

[circular]

I might get used to the hunger if it weren't for the fact it wakes me up at night and I cannot sleep unless I eat something, and if I don't eat enough I will have to get up *again* to eat. That's after dinner and something more before bed. In fact this can happen to me when I'm not calorie or carb restricted, and regardless of macronutrient ratios throughout the day or at given times. I am underweight. God forbid I get much exercise or it is impossible for me to get enough calories to sleep through the night without waking and needing food because of strong hunger pangs. It's driven me nuts for 6 years and I think menopause is playing a role. I welcome any clues!!! I think stress makes it worse but isn't the whole picture. It's like my circadian rhythm vis appetite is off, possibly even some type of autonomic disturbance. I was eating about 60-100 carbs a day and had to up it using whole grains. Not foolproof but it helps. I will try the hunger for centering notion and see if it helps.

[circular]

Lol there was a recent article in Jama I think about a new drug approved for orthostatic intolerance. Do you have EDS/hypermobility too? I think three may be a separate thread for that because juliegee and I were hypothesizing an overlap with apoe4.

[circular]

For a while some years back I was focused on the Okinawa diet. It emphasizes foods high in water. These have fewer calories but more weight. The weight is supposed to be what makes you feel full, not the calories. So their foods are lower caloric density but high water weight and nutrients. It's native approach to CR that's less "paleo" focused. maybe a sort of Eastern/coastal paleo? I should try that again.