Calorie restriction (CR)

[MarkES]

Mark, are you practicing CR? Is this new to you or something you've gradually worked into?

I haven't been, as described in The Longevity Diet. The anti-aging, vital years and maximum life extending, biomarker improving with life-long 25-50% calorie restriction is new to me. In the past, I've done some short term calorie restriction/cycling from a body composition perspective.

re: BMI. The Longevity Diet indicates fashion models generally have BMI of 17. I don't think this is being advocated as some sort of goal to achieve, but rather as a reference point.

Another perspective to consider ...

Paul Jaminet response to a woman with 5'6" height and 129 lb weight

In general I think you should let your body control your weight — just eat a healthy diet to appetite with IF, and your weight should be healthy. So I would think 129 lbs is healthy for you. BMI of 21 is considered optimal for women, and is associated with the lowest mortality in studies.

He doesn't provide a reference or discuss it in his book, though.

These are the only comments I've seen Paul make regarding calorie restriction. Apparently, he is not a proponent.

There's scientific support for this advice. Food restriction increases the severity of flu, a viral infection with coldlike symptoms. 31 It also appears to accelerate the progression of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS, Lou Gehrig’s disease). 32-1,32-2 When calorie restriction pioneer Dr. Roy Walford died of ALS at age seventy-nine, it was a warning: every extreme dietary strategy will eventually meet a pathogen that can exploit it.

Michael Rae defends the cause for Walford's dealth in the Amazon comment section of one review for the Beyond the 120 Year Diet:

ALS is an incredibly rare neurodegenerative disorder, to which Dr. Walford fell prey due to chronic exposure to a low-oxygen, nitrogen dioxide-poisoned atmosphere in the Biosphere. This has nothing to do with 'natural aging,' against which the CR animals are amazingly well-protected and for which studies suggest human CR practitioners are at extremely low risk.

[Julie G]

It's very sad to see how Dr. Walford died; especially given the most recent findings on ALS. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 104324.htm

Thanks for more info on BMI, Mark & G. I feel really good about my decision to stick around 18.5 for now. I'm balancing the benefits of CR with maintaining strength. If I naturally fall a few lbs either way; no worries.

[Gilgamesh]

Re. IGF1; yours got too low with higher fat?

Well, my analysis is of course: It got too low with extreme CR (which, as it happens, I achieved with surprisingly little effort because higher fat suppresses hunger).

My IGF1 was too low with low fat extreme CR also. So, in my case (and most cases, I'd guess), dietary constituents don't matter, only degree of CR. But man, the dietary constituents sure do make a diff. when it comes to ease of doing CR!!

[Russ]

Toying with ketosis got me back listening to Jimmy Moore's podcasts and want to draw people's attention to an interesting comment first made by Dr. Dom D'Agostino in Episode #848 beginning at minute 21:00…

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/848 ... 06495&mt=2

… wherein Dr. D'Agostino made a comment that they are finding that the underlying mechanism of the benefit of calorie restriction is due to the presence of beta-hydroxybutyrate in the blood.

Then, in the next episode #849 w Dr. Charles Mobbs whose specific research is on ketosis and aging, he goes into quite some depth on the role of beta-hydroybutyrate (which he calls 3-hydroxybutyrate, but its the same thing) on the subject…

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/849 ... 40845&mt=2

At least his current view seems to be that starvation, calorie restriction, ketogenic diets and even episodic diets (eating every other day) have beneficial effects simply because of their production of this ketone, which act as a signaling molecule that changes metabolism. Note that he was very specific that at least in his rat research that every other day feeding and ongoing ketogenic diets led to the same positive outcomes. Although I don't recall he said it, it would seem plausible to me that taking MCT/coconut oil might have benefit by the same logic?

If nothing else this might explain why some of the supposedly different angles several of us are playing with - CR, ketosis, intermittent fasting - might be 3 ways of achieving the same thing?

Anyone else explored this angle before? Thoughts?

[Julie G]

Hey Russ- YES, I've certainly explored this angle and am in full agreement that beta-hydroxybutyrate is the common link between all three. I even think we can even add exercise to the list; although it may depend on the type. I've heard very intense exercise is associated with INCREASES in glucose; whereas milder, steadier extended exercise tends to drop glucose and drive one into ketosis.

Dr. Ron Rosedale, a big name in CR, has developed his own program that promotes LC to derive double the benefit as many of us are doing. http://drrosedale.com/healthplan#axzz3Ay4QA1Oz

[Tincup]

Another element in all three is exposing the system to long periods of low insulin. In Kiefer's IF protocols of " Carb Nite" and "Carb Backloading," a common thread is to only eat carbs at night with any calories at breakfast being fat and any at lunch being fat and protein. Since fat does not provoke an insulin response and protein a limited one, these are almost the same as a daily 22:2 IF. Of course when insulin is low ketones are present.

If the benefit is from the ketones, then perhaps more is better, so deeper ketosis would be better. On the other hand, if low insulin is the benefit, then being mildly ketotic is sufficient.

Pondering...

[Russ]

So wonder is there yet another way related to butyrate produced by gut bugs from fiber and resistant starch? Anyone understand the pathway from n-butyrate to beta-hydroxybutyrate?

[Stavia]

George, I think you've identified the heart of the matter. We need to keep a wide view of all possible mechanisms. If it is the insulin levels that are crucial then there could be several paths to achieving that.

[Russ]

Just to note that the separate comments from both Dr's D'Agostino and Mobbs was that it was explicitly the presence of ketones that was the magic. They were mildly cautious in their comments, but generally left me with the impression this mechanism is looking pretty solid as the magic. Would welcome to hear thoughts from others with more finely tuned biochemistry ears who listen to Dr Mobbs interview as you're likely to glean better info than me.

[circular]

I interrupt this dialogue to bring you Wooden Leg, a late 19 century Cheyenne Indian:

"To 'make medicine' is to engage upon a special period of fasting, thanksgiving, prayer and self-denial, even of self torture. The procedure is entirely a devotional exercise. The purpose is to subdue the passions of the flesh and to improve the spiritual self. The bodily abstinence and the mental concentration upon lofty thoughts cleanses both the body and the soul and puts them into or keeps them in health. Then the individual mind gets closer toward conformity with the mind of the Great Medicine above us."

So there you have it! It only works combined with meditation