Melatonin
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Gilgamesh
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Re: Melatonin
[Like] Or, as one said before Facebook colonized our souls: amen!
Re: Melatonin
Alysson, I've always had a difficult time going to sleep at night (I'm a night owl - like all the women in my family). But beginning a few years ago, I started with that 2-3 am wake-up and would lie there for an hour or 2...or more. Awful. I started taking melatonin (1mg) which seemed to help me get to sleep faster, but had no effect otherwise. I did try time released melatonin, but it didn't solve the wake-up problems.
A couple years ago I began taking ashwagandha for other reasons (based on a 2014 Rudy Tanzi interview where he said it was one of the few supplements he used for it's potential anti-amyloid effects). At the time, it was the only recent change in my supplement stack, but I started to notice fewer wake-ups and also being able to go back to sleep more easily. Now, I do still wake up during the night often, but go right back to sleep pretty easily and don't ever seem to have that "edgy" feeling I used to have. I suspect that for me, at least, (n=1!) it might be related to a reduction in cortisol which has typically been elevated on lab tests. Just a guess based on taking a look at ashwagandha's possible benefits on Examine.com. I use the Douglas Labs brand and I take a capsule am and pm.
A couple years ago I began taking ashwagandha for other reasons (based on a 2014 Rudy Tanzi interview where he said it was one of the few supplements he used for it's potential anti-amyloid effects). At the time, it was the only recent change in my supplement stack, but I started to notice fewer wake-ups and also being able to go back to sleep more easily. Now, I do still wake up during the night often, but go right back to sleep pretty easily and don't ever seem to have that "edgy" feeling I used to have. I suspect that for me, at least, (n=1!) it might be related to a reduction in cortisol which has typically been elevated on lab tests. Just a guess based on taking a look at ashwagandha's possible benefits on Examine.com. I use the Douglas Labs brand and I take a capsule am and pm.
Re: Melatonin
Slacker, thanks for posting this information. If all I get from suvorexant is 23 minutes more total sleep time per night, I'd be disappointed. However, if it helps me sleep longer before waking up (after which I take Klonopin and have diminished deep sleep for the rest of the night), that would be a big help.slacker wrote:copied from Up to Date website; info available upon google search without a subscription:
Orexin receptor antagonists — Orexin receptor antagonists are a novel class of drugs in development for the treatment of insomnia. Orexin A and orexin B are hypothalamic neuropeptides that play a key role in promoting wakefulness and regulating the sleep-wake cycle [87]. Suvorexant, an oral dual orexin receptor antagonist with a 12-hour half-life, was approved by the FDA in August 2014 [88].
The efficacy of suvorexant was demonstrated in a multicenter international trial of 781 patients with primary insomnia who were randomly assigned to receive nightly suvorexant or placebo in a 2:1 ratio for one year, followed by a two-month randomized discontinuation phase [89]. The dose of suvorexant used was 40 mg for patients <65 years of age and 30 mg for patients ≥65 years. At one month, patients treated with suvorexant had improved subjective total sleep time (39 versus 16 minutes; difference 23 minutes, 95% CI 16-29) and subjective time to sleep onset (-18 versus -8 minutes, 95% CI -15 to -5) compared with placebo.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!
Re: Melatonin
Lucy, thanks for sharing your experience. It's wonderful that you have found a good solution for your sleep.Lucy5 wrote:Alysson, I've always had a difficult time going to sleep at night (I'm a night owl - like all the women in my family). But beginning a few years ago, I started with that 2-3 am wake-up and would lie there for an hour or 2...or more. Awful. I started taking melatonin (1mg) which seemed to help me get to sleep faster, but had no effect otherwise. I did try time released melatonin, but it didn't solve the wake-up problems.
A couple years ago I began taking ashwagandha for other reasons (based on a 2014 Rudy Tanzi interview where he said it was one of the few supplements he used for it's potential anti-amyloid effects). At the time, it was the only recent change in my supplement stack, but I started to notice fewer wake-ups and also being able to go back to sleep more easily. Now, I do still wake up during the night often, but go right back to sleep pretty easily and don't ever seem to have that "edgy" feeling I used to have. I suspect that for me, at least, (n=1!) it might be related to a reduction in cortisol which has typically been elevated on lab tests. Just a guess based on taking a look at ashwagandha's possible benefits on Examine.com. I use the Douglas Labs brand and I take a capsule am and pm.
I have taken ashwagandha before, though not at bedtime, and it is recommended as part of my protocol. I stopped it because it's a nightshade, and I wasn't sure if it was contributing to my ongoing symptoms. The paleo autoimmune protocol (AIP), which I'm on, recommends stopping all nightshades and then reintroducing them one at a time to see if any symptoms arise. I've not yet tried to reintroduce ashwagandha. However, you're now the second person who has mentioned to me that it has helped with sleep. Julie Gee was the other person.
I have had high cortisol at different points in the day, per multiple saliva tests. However, with testing last year via the DUTCH Complete urine test, my cortisol was scraping the bottom of the range in three of my four samples. The remaining sample was a bit above the bottom of the range. My doctor said it was probably because of the phosphatidylserine supplement (100 mg per day) he had recommended I take, so he had me stop. At the time, I was waking up in the middle of the night (I've been doing that for years), but I'll have to check my records to see how long I was sleeping before waking up.
If I was sleeping better then than I am now, I'll go ahead and try the ashwagandha.
I've tried the higher dose melatonin for 6 nights. I declare the experiment a failure. The first two nights must have been the placebo effect because the rest of the nights weren't good. Last night was the worst.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!
Re: Melatonin
Last night, I restarted Lyrica (two 50-mg capsules), which is a prescription drug typically used for fibromyalgia patients and for people with seizures or nerve pain. Lyrica is sedating, so that's why I use it. I slept well last night, sleeping 4 1/2 hours before waking and taking Klonopin to get back to sleep. I got 8 3/4 hours of sleep total. I feel good today.
The thing with Lyrica is that I develop a tolerance for it rather quickly, in less than a month, maybe just a couple of weeks. I'll have to track it and see how long it helps me. Initially, it helped me for several months (though it brought on an issue with balance when I woke up and got out of bed during the middle of the night). And I can't just stop Lyrica cold turkey. That can cause seizures, even in people who've never had one before. My sister was put on Lyrica for nerve pain, but it brought her issues with word-finding. She stopped taking it.
A doctor once told me that for insomnia, she found it most effective to cycle different strategies to work around that build up of tolerance issue. I just need to find other strategies that work that don't include Klonopin. Maybe suvorexant will be one of those strategies. But I look forward to the day when my insomnia resolves—completely.
The thing with Lyrica is that I develop a tolerance for it rather quickly, in less than a month, maybe just a couple of weeks. I'll have to track it and see how long it helps me. Initially, it helped me for several months (though it brought on an issue with balance when I woke up and got out of bed during the middle of the night). And I can't just stop Lyrica cold turkey. That can cause seizures, even in people who've never had one before. My sister was put on Lyrica for nerve pain, but it brought her issues with word-finding. She stopped taking it.
A doctor once told me that for insomnia, she found it most effective to cycle different strategies to work around that build up of tolerance issue. I just need to find other strategies that work that don't include Klonopin. Maybe suvorexant will be one of those strategies. But I look forward to the day when my insomnia resolves—completely.
ApoE 4/4 - When I was in 7th grade, my fellow students in history class called me "The Brain" because I had such a memory for detail. I excelled at memorization and aced tests. This childhood memory helps me cope!
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Thx4thegenes
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- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:58 pm
Re: Melatonin
Alysson, it may be a coincidence, but I too just tried Ashwagandha last night with a small dose of melatonin and I woke with pain in my index finger thinking a possible nightshade connection? I also peeled some zucchini into ribbons and perhaps that may be the cause, not sure? Will have to sort it out. But, it didn't work anyway, I couldn't get to sleep, stay asleep. It's not good when you can't sleep!
