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Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
SarahAnne
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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby SarahAnne » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Yes, I hear you. To your point, Fuel For Thought tastes well enough to use without pouring it on a carb. The company said that it tastes like a "smoothie"...an overstatement in my opinion. But at least it is bearable and perhaps some people would find it even palatable. It seems true, unfortunately, that some population of patients don't show a benefit from the coconut oil. But for my mom, it's part of her daily "cocktail" of supplements now and it seems to help. I think that Fuel For Thought is the formulation being used by Dr. Newport with her husband and also in her current clinical trial in Florida. If I recall, he is an E4 carrier with early onset. The website claims that FFT is so highly concentrated that there are the equivalent of 15 coconuts worth of MCT in each 2.5 oz bottle. I have no idea if that's true of course. But so far we think it's helping her.

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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby Rshircliff » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:27 am

These posts prompted me to start looking at ketone esters and so I wanted to share this from a study on Axona
Oral AC-1202 was designed to elevate serum ketone levels safely and efficiently, regardless of carbohydrate status of the diet. We have shown that AC-1202 improves memory and cognition in patients with mild-to-moderate AD [51] and in AAMI.

The effects of AC-1202 were more marked in the ApoE4-negative subpopulation, supporting previous findings that there are metabolic differences between E4-positive and E4-negative AD. This suggests that AD patients with varying ApoE genotypes may have different dose-response patterns, or that the differences between ApoE genotypes reflect differences in pathophysiology or stage of disease. A


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2604900/

Do keynote esters contain saturated fats? I still can't wrap my head around what the difference is between the saturated fats in MCT oil and the saturated fats in Coconut oil :?: Since the ketone esters work regardless of carbohydrate status, I'm pondering using them instead of MCT and getting calories from grains and watch my BG to see what happens.

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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby Rshircliff » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:27 pm

It's not sitting right with me to think that, by taking ketone (spell check wants to change that to keynote, so I apologize for the earlier auto correct) esters, one can increase carbohydrate consumption because glucose levels could likely go up. Plus I am suspect of magic pills. So I will continue my current dietary program for now with an increased focus on ketosis.

And, it's not sitting right with me to go on a statin either. My primary care doctor referred me to a lipidologist -- the closest one who is taking patients. He is at Duke University 3 hours from me, which is great. I guess he chose this dr. because of my past intolerance to statin drugs. Dr. Guyton https://www.dukemedicine.org/find-doctors-physicians/john-r-guyton-md favors mealtime niacin.

Does anyone know if statin therapy will hinder ketosis?

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KatieS
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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby KatieS » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:06 pm

R, Dr. Guyton looks like impressively trained lipidologist for your referral.

Good question as to statins or even niacin affecting ketosis. Since I'm now on both these past two months, I've been checking my BG like a hawk, and am pleased to report the BG is very low. My A1c never seems to correlate, but since the home testing is 10-20pts lower, this value should come down this month. What seem to really break the IR resistance for me is intense morning exercise with LC soy milk in coffee, not eating solid food for 15+ hours. Should get a ketone meter to verify.

SarahAnne
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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby SarahAnne » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:00 pm

Regarding what is in the ketone esters - From another thread, Juliegee mentioned a ketone esters product called "KetoForce" which I ordered on the web and it arrived today. Here is info from the label per serving of three capfuls (30cc):

Fat - 0g
Cholesterol - 0g
Sodium - 1.6g (hence the name Ketone Salts)
Potassium - 1.6g
Carb - 0g
Protein - 0g
Beta Hydroxybutyrate - 11.7g

I haven't opened the bottle yet because I heard the taste may be harsh, but when I feel brave I'll give it a try. I noticed another product called KetoCaNa on the same website (prototypenutrition.com). It's a powder they claim tastes better. If anyone has actual experience with these products it would be great to hear. My understanding is that they increase ketones even while eating carbs, so there seems to be some benefit. To optimize though, you would integrate a product like this into a keto diet. I always think it just depends on what lengths one is willing or practically able to go to. My mom pushes back on every diet change and every supplement, so my objective is to feed her ketones in any format I can get away with. I'm more willing and able to try other diet approaches that could optimize my situation.

I like to keep tabs on Dr. Mary Newport's husband, as a proxy for my mom. Here's the link to the most recent update from her that I was able to find. Note the embedded link in this article to her study on ketone esters that she tried with her husband, called "Case Report of Ketone Ester in a man with Early Onset Alzheimer's Disease".
http://www.coconutketones.com

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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby Juliegee » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:30 pm

Very exciting, SarahAnne. I want to do the same...but am still planning on moving ahead with the MEND therapy. I wonder if they'd approve? Doubtful :? It might be considered a confounder even though I'd be trading dietary ketones for ketone salts...Same net effect.

A few questions for your safety, my friend. Are you in ketosis? If so, what kInd of BHB readings are you getting? Have you ever tried MCT? How did you react to that? Be careful. Many E4 carriers get a very exaggerated response to MCT oil. Ketone salts are even more powerful. Only try a tiny fraction of a dose. Ideally, you would measure BHB to track.

Remember, for those simply at high risk (E4s) with no symptoms; Dr. Stephan Cunnane recommends a very low level of BHB- .4-.6 mmol/L. I keep my levels between .5-1.5 mmol/L and feel great, but I have symptoms of mitochondrial dysfunction and previous symptoms of cognitive decline.

Most importantly, share your experience. I'm really excited for you :D I truly think this MAY end up being our safest bet to create ketones, while protecting our heart health.

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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby asiagillett » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:54 pm

This is actually very interesting to me...I have a close friend who "plays" with this a bit. She actually competes in fitness/body building competitions and uses this towards the end of her training regimen when she is close to competition and fatigue hits and she feels she needs carbs for the training aspect. I have definitely grilled her a bit on this but she is using it completely differently than we would.....so not sure I am gleaning any positive feedback for us?????

Her diet for most of pre-competition is very high protein. From what I have gathered this allows her extra training time and endurance on top of allowing the extra long-fuel calories she needs to sustain very close to competition (so towards the end). I will have to dig deeper with her and report back.

Asia

SarahAnne
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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby SarahAnne » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:57 pm

No I'm not in ketosis. I've had a love/hate relationship with ketosis for the past 20 years. This is one of those situations when I wish we could all be face to face and just have a real conversation about all of our experiences. For reasons that I have never understood or gotten a good medical answer for, I don't do well on dietary ketosis. By about the 4th to 7th day, I become very sluggish. The first time I tried it was 20 years ago when Atkins' dieting was all the rage and I was eating truck loads of high fat protein. I've tried it a few times since, but I always wind up eating way too much protein. Because I'm low on self-discipline, and not one to ketone-test regularly, it all feels very overwhelming to implement the right way. I'm so impressed with how so many contributors on this site know their data and the percentages of fat/protein/carbs in their diet. I aspire to that, and with my genetics, I'd better figure it out. That's what I'm trying to do now and why I really appreciate being an unofficial participant in the MEND study, and why I'm currently addicted (literally) to this website.

Regarding my experience with MCTs, yes I have taken them. In order to ease my mom into anything new, I have to try it first. So I have some good experience ingesting MCT oil and the Fuel For Though product. It worries me that I don't feel much of a jolt at all. I do stay full for 6 hours on the Fuel For Thought so it definitely can cut one's appetite (and even leave you feeling nauseous at times). Right now I'm using small amounts (a few teaspoons) of an MCT oil product called "MCT Colada" that a doc recommended to me because it tastes okay. It has 6g of MCT per 2 tsp serving. And, I'm waiting to give my brand new KetoForce a try when the moment feels right (thanks to you Juliegee:).

Not to start a new topic, but my biggest challenge is brain fog. I've been down every alley to explain it, from full testing with a neurologist to having about 10 mercury fillings removed/replaced, to various supplements, and now to possible DMSA chelation protocol. But I can't help feeling that it's simply a cognitive symptom of an energy deprived brain. So this is why I am tracking this site's discussions of ketones and MCTs.

Okay, great chatting about all of this!

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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby GeorgeN » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:47 pm

SarahAnne wrote: By about the 4th to 7th day, I become very sluggish.


Sounds like "keto flu." It really takes a couple of weeks to adapt and get your own ketone system out of mothballs. The latest suggestions talk about making sure you consume extra sodium, potassium and magnesium salts, especially during this conversion period to mitigate the "flu". Ketone salts might also be useful as would give your brain something to feed on while going through conversion.

I have an E3/4 friend that ordered some Keto Force salts. He took some and went to the gym. Said he felt like he was on rocket fuel. Normally was "done" at the end of an hour of lifting and he went on for two on the salts.

Though I don't work on staying in ketosis all the time, I have been keto-adapted for ~4.5 years. For my athletic activities, this has been very useful. Some things I've noticed:

a) don't need as much water to stay hydrated at altitude while playing
b) almost never ever breathe hard, even playing at 12 or 13,000' (I live at 5,500' elevation)
c) don't run out of energy - I never do endurance cardio for training (only super slow lifting to failure), yet can keep up with my cardio fiend friends during our activities
d) eating 1 or 2x/day is no big deal, nor is fasting for longer periods of time
George
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Re: Coconut Oil ameliorates neurodegeneration

Postby rep » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:39 am

Juliegee said
So, if I am understanding all of this, E4 carriers, who are seeking the potentially neuroprotective properties of ketosis, could use MCTs and avoid hyperlipidemia. Intriguing


So, does this mean that I, as someone with high cholesterol and LDL-P, can go ahead and use ketone esters or MCTs and not worry about increasing my LDL-P? (I can't do it anytime soon anyway as I plan to follow the Muses protocol.)

I am still not clear on how being in ketosis helps prevent Alzheimer's. Would someone give a brief explanation? My understanding is that somehow forcing the brain to use ketones rather than glucose as a fuel stops it from forming plaque or tao. How? Why? Please explain how ketosis may be neuroprotective.

I have tried MCT in the past and did not note any change. What does that mean?


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