Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

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mimik67
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Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by mimik67 »

Dr. Norm Robillard: "What I find fascinating about this study is that these findings highlight a potential downside of dietary fiber

Short chain fatty acids (SCFAs) which include butyrate are produced by gut bacteria when we consume fiber or other fermentable carbohydrates. Butyrate has been touted as a super “anti-inflammatory” molecule that we should boost by consuming more fiber in our diet. Butyrate was also proposed as a cure-all for everything from leaky gut to colon cancer.

Results presented in this study support the idea that we may be consuming too much fiber and other fermentable carbohydrates in our diet. While SCFAs are healthy in moderation and represent “fat” produced by gut bacteria that we can burn for energy, we may be getting too much of a good thing.

A wealth of evidence supports the link between functional gastrointestinal disorders such as IBS and GERD, as well as autoimmune conditions and dysbiosis (an imbalance of intestinal bacteria) and/or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) that are inflammatory in nature. And if anything, SIBO and dysbiosis are expected to produce more SCFAs potentially in the wrong place in the digestive tract.

Diets that limit fermentable carbohydrates are winning in the clinic for these disorders suggesting that the carb-laden Western diet is behind these inflammatory conditions...."
FULL BLOG POST:
https://digestivehealthinstitute.org/20 ... s-disease/
3,4 but no family history of Altzheimers. However, mother likely had CIRS
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SusanJ
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by SusanJ »

Thanks for sharing this. I read a lot of his work a while back when I was working on my gut health, but haven't kept up with his posts.
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by mimik67 »

Hi Susan!

I love Dr. R's work. Thankfully leafy greens which Apoe4's need contain cellulose which is not consumed by the types of gut bacteria that might be causing harm in our large intestine (disbiosis) or small intestine (SIBO). So pass the salad! :)
3,4 but no family history of Altzheimers. However, mother likely had CIRS
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by Hepoberman »

Fermenting fibers can produce enough saturated fat in the gut to induce nureoinflammation?

Is that the claim?
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Julie G
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by Julie G »

I had a hard time following this as well without having access to the original paper...frustrating. My guess is that the "carb-laden Western diet" that is implicated in this blog post isn't broadly condemning nutrient dense non-starchy vegetables, but rather those from processed foods and grains. Has anyone been able to find the paper?
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by mimik67 »

Hi Julie and Hepoberman

I can contact Dr. Robillard to get the original paper.

Hepoberman:
Fermenting fibers can produce enough saturated fat in the gut to induce nureoinflammation?

Is that the claim?
Dr. Robillard is primarily concerned with SIBO/IBS. And in particular, SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth. About 80% of IBS cases are thought to be SIBO). As he notes here:
SIBO and dysbiosis are expected to produce more SCFAs potentially in the wrong place in the digestive tract.
Fiber is good for us, if we dont have SIBO. That is, in a properly functioning digestive tract where we have the right balance of gut microbes in the right place.

His blog post here goes into a bit more detail about fiber:
https://digestivehealthinstitute.org/20 ... ii-of-iii/
Fiber may not be the Holy Grail of good health as it has been reported to be, but who cares? In healthy individuals, the fermentation of fiber in the large intestine is generally considered normal and healthy.

Unfortunately, that’s not the case for many people with digestive problems. Consuming too much fiber can cause excess fermentation to spill over into the small intestine leading to a condition called Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO).

The small intestine normally contains drastically fewer and different bacteria than the large intestine. SIBO occurs when bacteria from the large intestine invade and multiply in the small intestine. There is a growing list of digestive conditions linked to SIBO including Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD) and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). Not surprisingly, SIBO symptoms can include abdominal pain, bloating, distention, gas, acid reflux, cramps, diarrhea or constipation and even malnutrition........

...Less is More

Fiber and often other hard-to-digest carbohydrates such as lactose, fructose, resistant starch and sugar alcohols comprise a unique type of food, and digesting it depends on cooperation between our bodies and our resident intestinal bacteria. While fiber consumption helps maintain our healthy gut bacteria, less is more.

Native or “good” bacteria have adapted to survival in the highly competitive environment of our gut by occupying unique niches based on their highly specialized abilities to break down and utilize a wide variety of fiber types.

A nutrient-limited environment (less fiber) helps rid our body of bad or pathogenic bacteria, such as C diff, because they are less able to compete when the going gets tough. A good analogy is leaving a few pieces of bread or bird seed in your back yard for the birds. If you overdue it, you can end up with rats. Clearly the health benefits of consuming large amounts of fiber are overstated and need to be balanced with the risk of digestive problems that can be caused or exacerbated by excess fiber.
And another awesome overview of how fermentable carbs can cause mischief for those with SIBO/IBS:

https://digestivehealthinstitute.org/20 ... ve-health/
My guess is that the "carb-laden Western diet" that is implicated in this blog post isn't broadly condemning nutrient dense non-starchy vegetables, but rather those from processed foods and grains
Julie, Dr. Robillard's model of fermentation potential is really awesome actually because it can allow for more FODMAPS and nutrient dense fiber foods, as tolerated. The model focuses on the quantity of these foods, rather than saying "yes" or "no" to foods. This will allow people to include modest amounts of nutrient dense foods that have historically been associated with gastrointestinal distress in people with SIBO/IBS (Such as FODMAPs). So LOL if one had SIBO, and were to consume 2 cups of butternut squash, plus two handfulls of nuts during the day, they would likely have undesirable symptoms, in the same way as consuming two slices of commercial whole grain wheat bread and a half a candy bar. Obviously the former foods are preferable, but the quantity of total load for the day of these different types of potentially symptom causing foods is what one is concerned with when they have SIBO/IBS.

Dr Robillard has a great app called the Fast Tract Diet App that helps calculate the total amount of fermentable foods consumed in a day to keep symptoms away and reduce the amount of overgrown bacteria in the small intestine. Intermittent fasting is helpful in the regard as well, allowing the cleansing waves of the SI to sweep bad bacteria down and out, while the stomach is empty. You can look at the FP calculator on line but the app is great
https://digestivehealthinstitute.org/fp-calculator/
3,4 but no family history of Altzheimers. However, mother likely had CIRS
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by Julie G »

Interesting, Mimi. I just put some random guesses from my CRON-O-Meter results in the calculator; 90 g carbs, 49 g fiber :oops:, and 0 grams of sugar alcohol, with a guess of 30 for my average glycemic index ranking. My results came back as 77.7g, HIGH, for fermentation potential. Interestingly, as I went higher in my glycemic rating, my risk went lower. Head spinning. Share what an optimal diet. per Dr. Robillard, would look like.

I was Dxed with a methane predominant SIBO (and CIRS) with no GI symptoms, zero candida, zero bad or even commensal bacterial. I've been working on my gut health for several years. My FMP hypothesizes that an underlying connective tissue disorder has predisposed me to motility issues, hence SIBO, and has prescribed even more fiber via guar gum to address. His approach is diametrically opposed to Dr. Robillard's. I'm about to re-test. Gulp.
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by mimik67 »

Hi Julie!

Cant wait to see your re-test! Exciting. Yes I agree the motility can be altered by connective tissue disorders on a spectrum. Are you familiar with the Cusack protocol to improve intestinal motility and other connective tissue issues? (also, Biotoxins love tissue with collagen issues, sigh!) I recommend having a look at the Cusack protocol on Facebook. Debrah Cusack is a fabulous moderator she answers questions quickly like you do! :)

As per Robillard, yes anyone needing to stay closer to ketosis would avoid or limit some of the lower fermentation foods that are more SIBO friendly (such as Jasmine rice, sushi rice or small amounts of russet potato--not basmati.) Would just depend on how your labs were looking as to whether you would prefer to include these in small amounts, several days per week. As for example, a small amount of jasmine rice a few days per week (chewed well, and not reheated) would be quickly absorbed and not lingering in the small intestine to be consumed by gut bacteria. This is due to the jasmine rice being high in amylopectin starch as opposed to amylose which is consumed by the gut bugs. For those watching all the blood sugar issues, then a lower fermentation mediterranean or paleo type diet would be desirable with smaller amounts of FODMAP and other nutrient dense foods such as the ones you noted -as in starchy veggies and including small amounts of nuts/seeds as tolerated (depending on individual gut health you can tolerate a daily FP of between 20-40). If you are asymptomatic with SIBO that makes me very curious. I have never met someone with methane dominant SIBO that did not tend toward constipation without help of fiber to move stools. And hence there is the double edged sword regarding fiber and SIBO.
3,4 but no family history of Altzheimers. However, mother likely had CIRS
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by Julie G »

If you are asymptomatic with SIBO that makes me very curious. I have never met someone with methane dominant SIBO that did not tend toward constipation without help of fiber to move stools. And hence there is the double edged sword regarding fiber and SIBO.
Let me clarify, I'm currently asymptomatic on my present day protocol. I have suffered with very severe GI issues most of my adult life; IBS-D, then C, GERD, etc. I've been focusing on my gut health for the past five years; very intently for the past 6 months upon learning about my h.Pylori and SIBO.

I did run into (online) Deborah Cusak several years ago. It's been fascinating to see her find a protocol that's helped her family. Those of us with connective tissue disorders (for some reason heavily represented here) face multiple challenges. By focusing on my cognition first, I've slowly healed and optimized my overall health. I plan to stay the course and follow my FMP's advice for now, but I appreciate learning about alternative strategies. For those of us dealing with multiple challenges, prioritizing and personalizing our approaches is paramount.
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Re: Gut Bacteria and Parkinson's Disease (If you eat whole grains/beans AND have IBS/SIBO read this

Post by mimik67 »

Julie yes it is exciting to see your focus on cognition as improving all the other things!!! This is what i am doing too! Starting with my CIRS treatment! (FInally!) it explains SO MUCH for me. Your doc sounds really good. Love that CCFM is incorporating so much into patient care.

Which diagnostic test did you use regarding H. pylori? Was it the Heidleberg acid test, a good stool test like GI Map? or other?

Thanks!
3,4 but no family history of Altzheimers. However, mother likely had CIRS
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