Gundry's Vital Reds

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Gilgamesh
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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby Gilgamesh » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:32 am

Harrison wrote:I don't know that the supplements I take are having a benefit, but in most cases it won't hurt (except your wallet).
Hi Harrison. I'm not sure about that "most". A revolution is afoot in our understanding of how most common "non-essential" supplements (i.e., things other than the classic micronutrients) affect the body. It may be that any benefit is not because of the "good" properties of them (that they are antioxidants for ex.) but because of the "bad" (hormetic) properties. Most of us exercise, practice some form of restricted eating, etc. These practices, too, are likely beneficial because of their hormetic effects. Push hormesis too far, and one gets a negative outcome. This is my concern about these supplements. Another thing, to the extent that they have "good" properties, such as antioxidant properties, they may interfere with the benefits of exercise, and perhaps other hormetic practices. I'm sure you're aware of recent studies showing antioxidants taken after exercise eliminates some of the bennies.

I'm inclined to eliminate nearly all supplements, but I feel too brainwashed, or lazy or something. I have my routine and I just stick to it. I really should research this more carefully. But I have cut way back. I open up the capsules and just take small amounts of most of these things, partly reasoning like Theresa does about fruit.

The Life Extension Foundation paid for a study conducted by Stephen Spindler of a few supplements combined (to mirror what most humans, though till then almost no lab rodents) consume. The results: not simply that they had no effect, but the supplements shortened the lives of the animals.

circular wrote: [...] rather than continue what I see as stuffing their egos with self-promoting quackery websites. (Uh oh, that may have verged on being poor conduct for the forum?)
Well, the guidelines are pretty clear: "Disagree with ideas, NOT people. [...] A polite and respectful tone is a MUST." Do you have reason to believe that the ideas presented in the website Hep pointed to are incorrect? Can you site them? By the way, otherwise, I agree with your post completely! Nice and balanced!


About Gundry: I think he's in the good guy category. Quack has a meaning with two "senses": 1) someone who willfully misleads to make money, and 2) someone who is offering harmful or worthless treaments. I see no evidence that #1 applies to him. As to #2:

I called his office, got a receptionist, said I was involved in three nonprofits, could easily find willing subjects who wouldn't need to be paid, that I could do a lot of the legwork for an RCT, etc. The receptionist said they'd get back to me. That was a year ago.

"I'm busy helping patients" is the typical response here. "ell, if you're unwilling to conduct science according to the standards by which science should be conducted, you do not, in fact, know that you're helping your patients. Period.

Gigglemush

circular
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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby circular » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:29 am

Gilgamesh wrote:
circular wrote: [...] rather than continue what I see as stuffing their egos with self-promoting quackery websites. (Uh oh, that may have verged on being poor conduct for the forum?)
Well, the guidelines are pretty clear: "Disagree with ideas, NOT people. [...] A polite and respectful tone is a MUST."

Hmmm, why would I say something like that, hmmmmm, oh ya, my EGO :lol: Walking to the corner of the forum to face the wall for an hour or so ;-) ...
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby Gilgamesh » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 am

circular wrote:Hmmm, why would I say something like that, hmmmmm, oh ya, my EGO :lol: Walking to the corner of the forum to face the wall for an hour or so ;-) ...
Forty-five minutes will suffice, even less if you do a few laps around your Apoe4.Info rosary.

Gigglemush

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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby bexnews » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:48 am

Are there any competing products the would contain the same ingredients? I don't think there's anything proprietary about the blend?

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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby TheresaB » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:49 am

bexnews wrote:Are there any competing products the would contain the same ingredients? I don't think there's anything proprietary about the blend?


Dr Gundry has told us if started to take Vital Reds we could drop:
    Schiff Digestive Advantage probiotic because VR also contains the BC30 probiotic
    Pycnogenol (French maritime pine bark extract)
    Grape seed extract
You can take those three products for about half the price, although it doesn’t cover all the polyphenols cited on the Vital Reds ingredient label.
vitalreds_sup.png
http://gundrymd.com/supplements/vital-reds/.
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-Theresa
ApoE 4/4

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SusanJ
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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby SusanJ » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:07 am

From the peanut gallery.

If you have IBS, Vital Reds contains FOS, which might aggravate IBS.

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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby Stavia » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:10 pm

Wow its expensive.
I'm currently striving for balance and equanimity.
Yes Gundry is a colourful character and some may interpret his statements as ego driven ( its OK Circ, I am guilty as well). Yes he has actually conducted no peer reviewed research in this field (his "paper" was a poster at a conference). Yes it doesn't look good that he is selling supplements.
But he still may be right in some of his recommendations.
Baby and bathwater and all that....

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby Gilgamesh » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:01 pm

Stavia wrote:But he still may be right in some of his recommendations.
Exactly. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. (Or: presence of bathwater isn't evidence of absence of baby ?? :mrgreen: )

But after a null response to my offer (and I know at least one other person who's made a similar offer) to help curate/organize a serious study to actually test aspects of his protocol, I'm more skeptical of Gundry than I otherwise would be.

Gigglemush

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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby Fiver » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:52 pm

Don't know Dr Gundry or the websites. But I can say that the list of plant phenols is pretty comprehensive - the service might just be in putting all these together in one package. I wonder what the state of the phenolics are in the product - they do tend to oxidize and polymerize during extraction, grinding, etc. Sometimes that means they aren't as beneficial as when they are from fresh food. But that is easy to test and minimize in the processing, and I presume they did. (I'm curious - so I'll try to put some into a batch a samples in the future. I'd bet the anti-oxidant potential is great, at least in a test tube.) It's probably of most use to someone with a poor diet, who isn't getting these in any other way. Just my guess. I do not know about the specific compounds that might cause digestive issues for some.
Concerned, but hopeful. Introverted, but will talk about science.

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Re: Gundry's Vital Reds

Postby circular » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:16 pm

I'm not feeling interested in Vital Reds at this time (too much opportunity for a reaction in me for one thing), but for some supplements that are costly but that I want to include, unless I know I need a full dose based on labs, I may just take a half dose and then consider that I'm getting it at half price, or that it lasts twice as long at the same price, or that the bath water has bubbles in it :D
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.


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