Gundry's Vital Reds

[Harrison]

Does anybody have any experience with Gundry's vital reds? http://gundrymd.com/supplements/vital-reds/

[TheresaB]

I am a patient of Dr Gundry, as is my husband. We have been consulting with him since before his products were introduced. Dr Gundry did not "prescribe" taking Vital Reds to us, he doesn't pitch his products to his patients during his consults, but he does bring up the subject in our consults when appropriate.

In our last consult about two months ago, Dr Gundry told us,

…polyphenols in general are probably the key to not having all the mischievous things that ApoE4 does in your brain. So basically, the more polyphenols I can cram down somebody’s throat, the better. And one of the cool things about Vital Reds, it’s just concentrated polyphenols and different polyphenols, and so it’s a great product for you guys.

He also said,

...I will tell you what I have observed. I’ve had a number of people who I could not get this Lp-PLA2 down with lots of grape seed extract, lots of fish oil, lots of longevinex, lots of pycnogenol, turmeric, and unbeknownst to me, they started taking my product Vital Reds and, knock on wood, so far every one of them, their Lp-PLA2 has gone down to normal.

After that consult, I started taking Vital Reds on a daily basis, to get the benefit of the polyphenols, which are mostly derived from fruit. I rarely eat fruit so this way I get the beneficial aspect of fruit (polyphenols) without the negative aspect of eating fruit (consuming fructose).

[Hepoberman]

There are red flags. https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/20 ... pplements/

[TheresaB]

There are red flags. https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/20 ... pplements/

I went to the above link, it said “Gundry’s life story is typical of the physician who has given up actually helping patients with real medicine and resorted to shilling untested snake oil to gullible people.”

I will admit, my jaw tightened when Dr Gundry started selling products because we’d been consulting with him, and I felt the supplements and info-mercials would cheapen his reputation as a legitimate doctor. I’m still not happy about it.

But I can rebut with this:

• -Dr Gundry continues to consult with patients (he has a long waiting list). We continue to consult with him. He has more first hand experience testing for/treating ApoE4s than any other doctor that I’m aware of. Through his advice, he has reduced our inflammatory, blood sugar, and other markers, all without the use of any of his products.
  
  -During his consults he has never told us we had take any of his products, he’s made a point of not pitching his products, but if appropriate he brings them up in conversation, continues to emphasize diet and recommend other non-Gundry supplements.
  
  -He continues to conduct surgeries, it’s just not the main emphasis of his practice, his preference turned to helping people restore their health vs cutting out the damage long before introducing his products.
  
  -There are two independent facebook pages dedicated to Dr Gundry’s diet (begun by followers, not Dr Gundry) which share recipes, challenges, experiences etc. Since introduction of his products, there have been some comments about them, most very positive, only a few have been negative (the products do come with full refund satisfaction guarantee). Since my biomarkers were in great shape, I was slow to jump on the bandwagon, it was only after reading these unsolicited third party comments was I even interested in trying Vital Reds.
  
  -Polyphenols (in Vital Reds, and other supplements and certain foods) do appear to have benefits of particular interest of ApoE4s. Admittedly, Dr Mercola is not without controversy given his alternative medicine approach, but the same can be said of this APOE4.info website. Nevertheless, I did find his to be a nice primer on polyphenols: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... efits.aspx including: (the numbers 28 - 37 in the text are the footnotes)
  • • Cardiovascular disease accounts for 1 in every 4 deaths in the United States, and heart disease is the leading cause of death in men and women.28 The research supporting polyphenols in the prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disease is well documented.
    Flavonoid polyphenols help to reduce the clumping of platelets in your blood and improve the function of your cells that line your arteries and veins.29 Platelet clumping is one potential precursor in heart attacks and angina.
    Polyphenols are also important as antioxidants, by scavenging free radicals and reducing the inflammatory response in your body. They are also a factor in the development of cardiovascular disease.30 Polyphenols inhibit vascular endothelial growth factor, which causes complications with atherosclerotic plaques in the arteries, a factor in cardiovascular disease.31
    • Alzheimer's Disease. An estimated 5.4 million Americans have Alzheimer's disease, a severe form of dementia,32 and the most recent data33,34 suggest over half a million Americans die from Alzheimer's each year, making it the third leading cause of death in the US, right behind heart disease and cancer. Researchers have identified the role polyphenols play in delaying the onset of dementia and reducing your risk for Alzheimer's.
    For example, resveratrol, found in grape skins and red wine, has been found to have neuroprotective effects.35 Other studies have demonstrated a reduction in the progression of dementia when polyphenols were included in the daily diet, by reducing two changes in the neurological system leading to dementia.36,37 [my emphasis]
  -Dr Gundry’s first book, “Diet Evolution” (published 2009) was edited by his publisher in order to sell books, which has been a sore point for Dr Gundry. So when he wanted to write a second book, Dr G was up front with his new editor about not restricting the subject matter. Dr Gundry even had the original release date postponed in order add some findings to the book. This second book, “The Plant Paradox” will be released next month, and Dr Bredesen (they’re now good friends) seems to be convinced that Dr Gundry is not selling “snake oil” (at least not in his book). From the Amazon website reviews:

  “It is rare that a book on health and nutrition introduces truly novel concepts, and rarer still that it backs them up with solid scientific data and clinical proof of validity—but The Plant Paradox does just that. We all owe Dr. Gundry a debt of gratitude for his insight and dedication to a new level of superb health.” (Dale Bredesen, MD, Professor of Neurology, UCLA School of Medicine; Founding President, Buck Institute; and author of The End of Alzheimer's)

We all must make our own decisions. I recognize not everyone on this forum buys into Dr Gundry’s philosophy, and that’s okay! But as an ApoE4/4, I personally feel a lot more confident about a healthful future following his dietary recommendations because of the tangible results I’ve seen in my biomarkers.

[circular]

One could probably use this quack website to create a list of red flags for calling out quackery websites as well. That said, if you are on Dr. Gundry's mailing list, I feel he does aggressively market his supplements through the mailing list and I've filtered him out of my inbox for that reason. I don't take them yet either. I don't think it's been shown that it's impossible to overdo polyphenols through supplementation (???).

I wish he were more of a clinical researcher, but since he's not. There's nothing really wrong with proposing a theory and offering whatever support you have for it, which his new book next month should do, and letting others do the clinical research. I hope those who write him off out of hand will do some good clinical trials on his ideas and see what happens rather than continue what I see as stuffing their egos with self-promoting quackery websites. (Uh oh, that may have verged on being poor conduct for the forum?) Even though I see some quackery websites that way, I still value their perspective, just as I do Dr. Gundry's. It's just that they all make me work harder than I should have to just to cut through their obvious agendas

I'm interested in Gundry's ideas and thoughts, and having some acquaintance with his work and results I won't jump to full-blown quackery, but I think he misuses "researcher" in his self-presentation. He could be more specific that he's not doing clinical trials but rather observational and literature research and whatever other types I may be missing because his communications so often overgeneralize. If he would speak and write more precisely rather than for marketing, his colleagues might listen with a more open mind.

[Harrison]

After that consult, I started taking Vital Reds on a daily basis, to get the benefit of the polyphenols, which are mostly derived from fruit. I rarely eat fruit so this way I get the beneficial aspect of fruit (polyphenols) without the negative aspect of eating fruit (consuming fructose).

Thanks Theresa. My wife bought vital reds for me for this exact reason. I don't know that I would have purchased them, but now it's done. I have been taking a variety of supplements, and figure adding this won't hurt. Hepoberman's comment is well taken. Very few supplements have randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded positive data. I never took supplements (other than a muli-vitamin) for this exact reason. Once I learned my apoE status, my perspective changed a bit. I don't know that the supplements I take are having a benefit, but in most cases it won't hurt (except your wallet). On some level, I think everybody does this calculation for themselves and the number of supplements taken by members of this site probably ranges from 0 to a dozen or more.

[Julie G]

Thanks for all of the info on this, guys. I've been curious about this one. I may try them at some point. In the meantime, I've adopted a poor man's version by sprinkling organic ground cloves into my coffee. It's not bad. Cloves top the list for foods highest in polyphenols.

[GOLDTHREAD]

Juliegee
Do you know the best source for organic raw avocado oil?
[emoji173]️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sandy57]

Costco has Avocado oil.

[GOLDTHREAD]

Thank you Sandy57


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk