Question about the inflammatory effect of dairy

[cdamaden]

Does the milk source, A1 or A2, matter for cheeses? Dr Gundry, on his video that was recently posted on Facebook with Maria Schriever, said that cheese was bad for E4 folks but that may have been his broad generalization.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SusanJ]

That makes me wonder if you could still tolerate raw, unpasteurized A2 milk like you did as a child.

Have often wondered that but have not found anyone who sells unpasteurized milk to try it out. At this point, I've just given up on dairy.

[apod]

Thinking about dairy in the context of a meal, it does seem like the overall effect would largely be neutral... but the macros could get out of hand if you're sensitive to SFA and a cheese-lover (this tends to be my issue with dark chocolate.) I've read that casein can be pro-cholesterolemic, but this seems to be more of an issue with an unbalanced casein-overfed amino acid ratio used in the studies (gelatin is also pro-cholesterolemic when the other aminos are unbalanced.)

The inflammation would be the least of my concerns in the context of diet + lifestyle.

For example, lets say whey is largely anti-inflammatory, and a way to boost glutathione and improve metabolic health / physical performance / body composition while reducing oxidative stress:

Whey protein concentrate (WPC) and glutathione modulation in cancer treatment:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11205219

Dietary whey protein lessens several risk factors for metabolic diseases: a review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3393628/

Dietary whey protein stimulates mitochondrial activity and decreases oxidative stress in mouse female brain: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23748211

Etc.

Then, lets say CLA is similarly anti-inflammatory and seems to improve metabolic health though a different mechanism
Modulation of inflammation and immunity by dietary conjugated linoleic acid.:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25987426

Conjugated Linoleic Acid Fights Cancer, Heart Disease, and More (http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazin ... e-and-more)

Then... lets say K2 is largely protective... and calcium balance is largely protective.

Looking at something like Grass-Fed Plain Kefir, we're hitting all of these points in addition to the gut-microbe effects... which is further anti-inflammatory. Anti-inflammatory properties of kefir and its polysaccharide extract:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16280101

Now, lets assume I'm eating a ketogenic diet... which is anti-inflammatory, and I've had a curcumin supplement (borderline as strong as ibuprofen.) A serving size of Lifeway Farmers cheese has 1 gram of saturated fat and 3 grams of protein.... how much inflammation and lipid derangement could this possibly stir up?

I've had my eye on this stuff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_milk#Koumiss
"In Mongolia, where koumiss is the national drink, people have a saying that ‘kumys cures 40 diseases’"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_mil ... a_medicine
"Camel milk is also used as a medicinal product in India. The Bedouins of the Middle East believe it to have curative powers. A study of eight children showed its ability to ameliorate allergies in children. Camel milk in India has been used by raika and other desert communities, it also finds its presence in the ancient Indian medicinal texts of Ayurveda. The National Research Centre on Camel in Bikaner, Rajasthan, India is a national camel research institute which has participated in research projects on the therapeutic values of camel milk in autism, diabetes, TB, hepatitis, etc. "

https://desertfarms.com/products/raw-ca ... fir-frozen

But, 6 pints is a lot of raw ass milk to import.

[circular]

All I can add is that I tried A2 milk last year (Boulder has a company sourcing it), and had a severe bout of diarrhea. So for some of us, it just doesn't matter. I grew up drinking unpasteurized A2 milk (likely A2 since it was from a jersey cow we had on the farm), and didn't have GI symptoms.

Susan thank you for adding this! I've been thinking I'm the only one in the world who can't tolerate A2. Wherever I mention it no one ever says 'me too'. I've tried in the forms of goat milk, sheep yogurt, and goat yogurt ... they all give me diarrhea. I should note that they never did so before I quit dairy and didn't eat any for a long while. Before quitting dairy my reaction to it was extreme bloating and stuffiness, especially bronchial congestion, which I don't seem to get from anything else. After quitting and reintroducing - even in small amounts - the reaction became stomach distress and diarrhea (once to the point of fainting). I tried the goat milk first and it took about two days for the reaction, so I thought I was tolerating it and got happy and drank more. I probably had two 8 oz cups in all. My subsequent trials of the sheep and goat yogurt were much more tentative, about a spoonful, and after another two-day delay I got the same symptoms as with goat milk only milder. I think the delay usually means intolerance as opposed to a strict allergy.

Julie, that's a very interesting idea about trying raw A2. I don't know if the sheep and goat yogurt and goat milk I tried was raw, but probably not. I think I would have recognized the difference. I'd be game to try it, although when I tried raw cow milk in the past (I'm not sure if it was A1 or A2), I had horrible histamine reactions. Apart from that I was amazed at the difference between raw and pasteurized milk. They're not even the same food. Not even close. We wouldn't eat pasteurized sauerkraut these days, so why would we eat or promote pasteurized dairy? (Not a judgment, just a rhetorical question.) Of course the conventional warning is you might get sick, but they started pasteurizing milk when they brought cows out of the country to supply growing cities and the cows were getting sick removed from their natural conditions. They they had to kill those bacteria. Cows (or goats or ...) raised properly don't have this issue (which isn't to say contamination isn't possible). Maybe that's why so many farming families drink raw milk even when sending the rest off for pasteurization before sale (or so I've heard).

This got me remembering the farmer I was getting raw milk from for a short while (before I had to accept it was making me sick with the high histamine). His Wisconsin farm got raided by the authorities and had to fight a legal battle over his farm activities. He won on appeal except for one of four charges, when he refused - out of conscience - to acknowledge a holding order on the sale of his products.

I read once that human breast milk is A2. I'm not even sure we need any peer reviewed research if that's the case! Sorry Julie! Well the peer review is probably still good because many would just say, 'oh well, so we naturally drink A2, who care's, a little A1 won't hurt. What difference can an amino acid make?'

Thanks for your work on this Julie!

[SusanJ]

circ, I swear we are related. I don't tolerate any goat or sheep products either. Was tempted to try camel once last year, but thought better of it given my sketchy history with other species.

[SusanJ]

Julie, as I was thinking about this, I looked a long time ago into a link between gluten sensitivity and dairy sensitivity. I remember concluding that if you are avoiding one because it gives you problems, you should avoid the other.

Here's a recent study of celiacs.

We measured the reactivity of affinity-purified polyclonal and monoclonal α-gliadin 33-mer peptide antibodies against gliadin and additional food antigens commonly consumed by patients on a GFD using ELISA and dot-blot. We also examined the immune reactivity of these antibodies with various tissue antigens. We observed significant immune reactivity when these antibodies were applied to cow’s milk, milk chocolate, milk butyrophilin, whey protein, casein, yeast, oats, corn, millet, instant coffee and rice.

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInfor ... erID=26626

And in general, milk proteins can cause IgG / antigenic responses.

A Critical Review of IgG Immunoglobulins and Food Allergy
http://www.usbiotek.com/Downloads/infor ... Review.pdf

[Julie G]

Beyond fascinating, Susan. It appears to be a very similar mechanism in both cases. Both gluten and A1 milk lead to a permeability of the gut that allow toxins into the bloodstream and eventually through to the BBB. Additionally, both gluten and A1 milk create opiod peptides that bind to receptors in the brain. I'm gobsmacked .

[circular]

Camel! Where do you get that! I'll try! Oh! Here! 'Raw Camel Milk Kefir' Hey! You can get some free camel milk to try at this page. Whoa! It says 'Camel milk is anti-inflammatory and helps to heal the leaky gut' [Emphasis added] That's for you JulieGee! And here you go ... immunoglobulins and other 'inflammation inhibiting proteins' [Emphasis added]! (This last page has references at the bottom - I haven't delved, dived or diven.)

Susan -- my long-lost, now-found sister -- the trick to trying it is just take a wee bit and wait a couple days. If no reaction try two wee bits and wait a couple more days. Any reaction should be mild and brief enough that you won't be miserable and will have your answer, especially if the symptoms are a milder version of what happens if you have a whole serving of dairy. At least that works for me, YMMV.

I think I'll order the free sample and let you know how it goes. Thing is, I've been away from dairy for so long I'm not sure I would even like the taste of it... On second thought it's $30 just to ship 32 oz of it. Even if I could drink it, the cost of the milk on top of shipping would rule it out. Hopefully it will take off and become more affordable.

If you have it local there maybe it would be more cost appealing to drive there and try it in the hot springs

In the meantime I'm looking forward to working on the ApoE4.info camel farm.

[SusanJ]

circ, check for camel dairies near you. You might be surprised.

This handsome girl visited my local farmer's market last fall.

IMG_1214.jpg

The dairy is a coop, so I'd have to beg them for a try and then maybe join. I'll see if they show up again this year.

http://cozine.com/2014-december/camels-moffat-mirage/

But then again, my back yard does sort of resemble the Sinai...

[circular]

Oh, she Is handsome! Looks like a giraffe too! I've realized my climate is just right and there's room in my own backyard. I should become the local source! While I'm looking for the right breeder, your tip lead me to some camel milk 2 hours away, where I have plenty of other fun things to do with the trip too.