Question about the inflammatory effect of dairy

[Stavia]

A cardiology colleague of mine did her PhD on the effect of dairy on CVD and found it neutral. She was not funded by the dairy industry and was actually suprised by the findings.

Given that the A2 Milk Company is a New Zealand enterprise, wondering if your colleague's work included any consideration on differential impacts of A1 and A2 milk?

many of our herds are mixed and she said the data simply wasn't there.

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[Starfish77]

At our last conference there were four of us who thought about trying not eating dairy after hearing Terry Wahl. I believe one was Stavia, I don't recall the other two. I did it from August 2016 to May 2017. I ate lots of dairy, mostly non fat yoghurt before, no dairy from Aug to May, and now I'm eating a smaller quantity of non fat yoghurt (Greek now, it wasn't Greek before--I just like the taste, no other reason). I did not experience any change while I was 100% off dairy, before or after. I don't have any problems with other food so I don't have a very sensitive digestive system. I don't eat wheat because it makes me want more wheat, but it didn't make me feel unwell.
I tried going dairy free because I wondered if it would help my back. I didn't experience any difference.
I wonder if Stavia and the other two people did try going dairy free and if so, did it make them feel differently.

[circular]

I've heard a number of times that dairy, at least milk, which is highest in lactose, increases insulin. Would that be a driver of inflammation, especially in a diet that's already promoting insulin?

I can't tolerate any dairy but ghee and some butter, not A1 or A2, not goat, not sheep, not cow, not raw, and I've tried them all. I've also tried different whey powders and react to those too. I'm quite sure it's the casein (whether A1 or A2) and/or whey. While A2 might be better, I'm guessing it's still close enough to the gluten molecule that some who can't tolerate gluten also can't tolerate casein. Ghee has the casein and lactose almost entirely removed and I seem to do fine with it. I only eat butter when dining out and I allow the candied pecans in a salad, which are often made with butter, but the amount eaten is small and casein must be very trace.

Dr. Gundry has not that I'm aware of ever suggested that some people can't tolerate the A2 dairy, but count me in.

You might be interested in some ideas on this page about ghee in the context of dairy reactions and inflammation. They're not the peer review you're looking for, but they may give you new search angles.

[Julie G]

I just listened to three short summary videos re. The Devil in the Milk. You can access this first one here. (It has links to the other two.) I highly recommend it for anyone struggling with the science on this. The case against A1 milk is pretty strong. Any of us with gluten intolerance and/or leaky gut should run from A1 milk. I remain unconvinced that A2 milk is problematic. The problem is that it's so hard to find in most parts of the country. Apparently, ALL goat's milk is A2. Even I can get that for an occasional treat .

[Stavia]

Starfish I did go dairy free for 3 months as I promised Terry Wahls. Made no difference to my asthma and I felt no different whatsoever. So I'm back on dairy - mainly local cows cheese, some goat cheese, some organic milk and organic butter - and as Russ says, all our cows are grassfed and I've called up a couple of the big co-operatives so I know who has mixed herds.

Julie, don't you get imported Belgian goats' feta in the US? We do.

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[Julie G]

Stavia, real goat's milk feta is very difficult for me to find, but would be an enormous treat .

Thanks to all for your wonderful leads that led me down a rabbit's hole last night. I needed to understand the mechanism to buy into this A1/A2 hypothesis. From what I’ve learned, A1 milk has a switch with a single peptide at the 67th position; histadine rather than proline. Histadine renders the protein unstable during hydrolysis and little protein fragment called beta-casomorphin7 (BCM7) results. BCM7, an opiod receptor, can apparently get into the blood stream and into the brain where it binds with opiod receptors. It is correlated with autism, schizophrenia, CVD, and diabetes. Interestingly, in mice studies when naxalone (which prevents the opiod binding) is administered with A1 milk, the negative health consequences completely DISAPPEAR. No negative health consequences have been associated with A2 milk. None. Here's a good summary of the health effects from A1 and A2 dairy on humans:

BCM7 is suggested to be associated as a risk factor for human health hazards as it can potentially affect numerous opioid receptors in the nervous, endocrine and immune system. It is also known to be an oxidant of low dietary lipoproteins (LDL) and oxidation of LDL is believed to be important in formation of arterial plaque. Epidemiological evidences claim that consumption of beta-casein A1 milk is associated as a risk factor for type-1 diabetes, coronary heart disease, arteriosclerosis, sudden infant death syndrome, autism, schizophrenia etc.[3,4] A broad range of studies from American and European investigations has shown reduction in autistic and schizophrenic symptoms with decrease in A1 milk intake.[5] Further, animal trials have also supported the linking of type-1 diabetes to milk exposure in general and A1 beta-casein in particular.

Populations, which consume milk containing high levels of β-casein A2 variant, have a lower incidence of cardiovascular disease and type-1 diabetes. The A1/A2 hypothesis is both intriguing and potentially very important for public health if it is proved correct. It should be taken seriously and deeper research is needed to verify the range and nature of BCM7 interactions with the human gastrointestinal tract and whole organism. This requires more of animal trials and generation of data on human subjects having the problems related to A1/A2 beta-casein milk consumption.

Here’s a study with humans comparing the effect of A1 and A2 milk. It would be very interesting to see the same experiment on folks who don’t report negative symptoms with dairy consumption.

Effects of milk containing only A2 beta casein versus milk containing both A1 and A2 beta casein proteins on gastrointestinal physiology, symptoms of discomfort, and cognitive behavior of people with self-reported intolerance to traditional cows’ milk
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4818854/

Results
Compared with milk containing only A2 β-casein, the consumption of milk containing both β-casein types was associated with significantly greater PD3 symptoms; higher concentrations of inflammation-related biomarkers and β-casomorphin-7; longer gastrointestinal transit times and lower levels of short-chain fatty acids; and increased response time and error rate on the SCIT. Consumption of milk containing both β-casein types was associated with worsening of PD3 symptoms relative to baseline in lactose tolerant and lactose intolerant subjects. Consumption of milk containing only A2 β-casein did not aggravate PD3 symptoms relative to baseline (i.e., after washout of dairy products) in lactose tolerant and intolerant subjects.
Conclusions
Consumption of milk containing A1 β-casein was associated with increased gastrointestinal inflammation, worsening of PD3 symptoms, delayed transit, and decreased cognitive processing speed and accuracy. Because elimination of A1 β-casein attenuated these effects, some symptoms of lactose intolerance may stem from inflammation it triggers, and can be avoided by consuming milk containing only the A2 type of beta casein.

[Russ]

...and as Russ says, all our cows are grassfed ...

Lucky lady... hopefully one day true for everyone

[Russ]

Thanks to all for your wonderful leads that led me down a rabbit's hole last night.

I just love it when Julie goes down the rabbit hole ... we all win.

Doubled my interest in this A2 thing, and by extension, what a great example of how a small change could have such a big impact. It's a great reminder that the complexity of food is fundamental. Humbling reminder that over-simplifying things into simple big buckets of fats, carbs and proteins likely misses key aspects of impact on health.

[SusanJ]

All I can add is that I tried A2 milk last year (Boulder has a company sourcing it), and had a severe bout of diarrhea. So for some of us, it just doesn't matter. I grew up drinking unpasteurized A2 milk (likely A2 since it was from a jersey cow we had on the farm), and didn't have GI symptoms. By age 45, I had given up dairy to avoid GI problems - and no, it wasn't the lactose. Even 23andme says I should be lactose tolerant. One of my brothers also gave up dairy. So, likely something genetic there.

So, perhaps for me, drinking any milk at this point is just another casualty of a combination of a few rounds of antibiotics, in addition to way too much wheat and legumes in my 40s and my inflammatory genes.

[Julie G]

All I can add is that I tried A2 milk last year (Boulder has a company sourcing it), and had a severe bout of diarrhea. So for some of us, it just doesn't matter. I grew up drinking unpasteurized A2 milk (likely A2 since it was from a jersey cow we had on the farm), and didn't have GI symptoms.

Fascinating. Pasteurization may have been the issue with your recent trial. One of the the Underground Health videos (linked earlier/Part 2) dives into the different methods used for this proces. When done at high heat, especially if the milk is held for an excessive time, the milk protein is damaged and oxidized leading to BCM7. I assume that's true for both A1 and A2 milk although A2 would be more resistant given the inherent stability of proline at the 67th peptide, but susceptible nonetheless. That makes me wonder if you could still tolerate raw, unpasteurized A2 milk like you did as a child.