Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

[Julie G]

Julie can you please elaborate a bit here for us newer to the science:

We have hints that increasing SCFAs may result in BHB which could offset the difference. Testing KBs, will help you know for sure. I’ll also be very curious to see if this affects your ability to fast and the effect on your glycemic markers.

SCFAs (short chain fatty acids) from what? Resulting in BHB (what is BHB?)

Are you assuming that Stavia will stay in mild ketosis despite the macro switch?

You know what happens when you assume? But, YES, that's what I'm wondering about. By testing her beta-hydroxybutyrate levels (BHB) Stavia can actually measure to see if this theory is true. Short chain fatty acids (SCFAs), created by increased dietary fiber, are comprised of acetate, propionate, and butyrate. These are produced by bacteria in the gut during fermentation of insoluble fibre from dietary plant matter. Multiple researchers are hypothesizing that this can translate to produce fuel to address cerebral glucose utilization deficits.

Butyrate, neuroepigenetics and the gut microbiome: Can a high fiber diet improve brain health
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4016300775

Highlights
•Interest in how diet influences brain function via the gut microbiome is growing.

•Butyrate can protect the brain and enhance plasticity in neurological disease models.

•Gut microbiota produce butyrate by fermenting carbohydrates in a high fiber diet.

•Hypothesis: A high fiber diet can elevate butyrate to prevent/treat brain disorders.

Having been testing BHB on a HFLC diet, Stavia is in a unique place to be able to test and compare this on a LFHC diet. If she's still able to fast and exercise (i.e. work hard) I suspect her BHB may remain the same.

Julie also am I getting any benefit from morning fasting even if I am not following LCHF? (I eat daily a small amount of carbs and my blood sugar and fasting insulin are ok-i will post in a separate thread).

I bet it's hard to fast on LFHC, Mimi. If not, you're very metabolically flexible- kudos. I suspect you are definitely still getting the benefit of autophagy; increased beta-amyloid and LDL clearance.

Julie if I go too deep into Ketosis (multiple days at 16+ hours of fasting, I think the increase in uric acid production from KB production-or possible oxalate dumping (thank you, gut damaged by antibiotic use history=dysbiosis and oxalate issues) So if I go over 16 hours my bladder is very unhappy

Mimi, no surprise (we share many overlapping issues!) I also have long term IC. FWIW, my bladder is very happy at the moment while following a mildly ketogenic diet. I'm using D-Mannose, recommended by Russ, which turned out to be a lifesaver. I'm also still taking a tiny amount of MCA meds (z/z) and the D-Hist supplement. Since dropping A1 dairy 100%, I think my bladder has been even better. Mild ketosis doesn't bother my bladder at all, but we're all different.

[Hiwaystar]

Bravo Stavia. It's been my experience that you can get all the protein you need from your plants and vegetables in your diet - I don't subscribe to the common belief in western diets that you need to add dairy to get sufficient protein. I became vegan after watching Forks Over Knives, and listening to what Dr. Esselstyn says about that. (full disclosure that 3-4 times a year I end up with an ice cream cone in my hands). I do drink a low sugar vegan protein drink every day for my lunch, and it contains protein from peas, artichoke, amaranth, and quinoa. My brother eats a high fat diet and is also in pretty good shape, hopefully we are both okay with what we eat !

[lol]

Stavia -

You need to do something about your stress levels. Somehow you have to decrease your work hours. I am sure you are already getting in some cardio; that helps. A good book takes you away, too. Guess I shouldn't recommend a glass of cabernet every night, but it is a nice way to take the edge off of the day. Just don't indulge close to bed time. It might keep you up.

It is great that you are flexible. Going vegetarian is going to be delicious - you have every vegetable, fruit, bean, and whole grain to choose from. You can have spinach lasagna, black beans and rice, vegetable omelets, meatless chili, and good old oatmeal with lots of nuts and berries. My favorite is toasted whole grain bread with peanut butter or almond butter and raisins and banana. A big glass of milk goes down with that. But you can't handle dairy, right? The Mexican vegetarian dishes are another favorite. Yum!

Now I am going to speak my mind, which I seem to be doing more often. Maybe you shouldn't go completely from high fat to vegetarianism. Your body is going to scream - "whoa ... what is going on?" Wouldn't it be okay to add some seafood, white meat poultry? Just now and then.

The supplement thing gets old, but B12 could be helpful.

[lol]

I see that you are already taking B12. That is good.
Do you think that it is okay to go from one extreme to the other, suddenly? You have to think of yourself, too, not just experimentation for the good of the group. Maybe before your Sept start date, you could start cutting back on high fat protein and switch to low fat protein, like poultry and seafood. See how that goes and how you feel.

[jolicoeur]

Julie

Have you ever tried testing ketone strips ( urine) ?
I would like to follow-up my ketones and make some statistics. And if yes, which ones?
Thanks
Lucie

Julie can you please elaborate a bit here for us newer to the science:

We have hints that increasing SCFAs may result in BHB which could offset the difference. Testing KBs, will help you know for sure. I’ll also be very curious to see if this affects your ability to fast and the effect on your glycemic markers.

SCFAs (short chain fatty acids) from what? Resulting in BHB (what is BHB?)

Are you assuming that Stavia will stay in mild ketosis despite the macro switch?

You know what happens when you assume? But, YES, that's what I'm wondering about. By testing her beta-hydroxybutyrate levels (BHB) Stavia can actually measure to see if this theory is true. Short chain fatty acids (SCFAs), created by increased dietary fiber, are comprised of acetate, propionate, and butyrate. These are produced by bacteria in the gut during fermentation of insoluble fibre from dietary plant matter. Multiple researchers are hypothesizing that this can translate to produce fuel to address cerebral glucose utilization deficits.

Butyrate, neuroepigenetics and the gut microbiome: Can a high fiber diet improve brain health
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4016300775

Highlights
•Interest in how diet influences brain function via the gut microbiome is growing.

•Butyrate can protect the brain and enhance plasticity in neurological disease models.

•Gut microbiota produce butyrate by fermenting carbohydrates in a high fiber diet.

•Hypothesis: A high fiber diet can elevate butyrate to prevent/treat brain disorders.

Having been testing BHB on a HFLC diet, Stavia is in a unique place to be able to test and compare this on a LFHC diet. If she's still able to fast and exercise (i.e. work hard) I suspect her BHB may remain the same.

Julie also am I getting any benefit from morning fasting even if I am not following LCHF? (I eat daily a small amount of carbs and my blood sugar and fasting insulin are ok-i will post in a separate thread).

I bet it's hard to fast on LFHC, Mimi. If not, you're very metabolically flexible- kudos. I suspect you are definitely still getting the benefit of autophagy; increased beta-amyloid and LDL clearance.

Julie if I go too deep into Ketosis (multiple days at 16+ hours of fasting, I think the increase in uric acid production from KB production-or possible oxalate dumping (thank you, gut damaged by antibiotic use history=dysbiosis and oxalate issues) So if I go over 16 hours my bladder is very unhappy

Mimi, no surprise (we share many overlapping issues!) I also have long term IC. FWIW, my bladder is very happy at the moment while following a mildly ketogenic diet. I'm using D-Mannose, recommended by Russ, which turned out to be a lifesaver. I'm also still taking a tiny amount of MCA meds (z/z) and the D-Hist supplement. Since dropping A1 dairy 100%, I think my bladder has been even better. Mild ketosis doesn't bother my bladder at all, but we're all different.

[Stavia]

lol, I know....Hopefully only a month more...
I really appreciate everyone's advice. Im not sure I can get fancy vegan protein powders in my country so its gonna have to be food.
I dont have any high fat protein atm and havent for years.
My diet is overwhelmingly veggies in volume atm. Swamp, I'm eating only a little animal protein and saturated fat. If Im hungry I eat carrots dipped in mashed avocado or some nuts.
I'm already on only abour 70 grams protein a day, the animal part of it only fish or mussels or pastured chicken. Very infrequent red meat.

The difference will be swapping out the fat component (only from avocado, nuts, olive oil and fatty fish) for more carbs. Ill keep up the nuts and measure it....does that make sense?

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[slacker]

Have you ever tried testing ketone strips ( urine) ?
I would like to follow-up my ketones and make some statistics. And if yes, which ones?

Jolicoeur -
A quick website search on "ketone testing" will guide you to several threads about ketone testing. Bottom line (with more details in various threads): finger stick blood ketone testing is far superior to urine ketone testing. Abbott brand Precision Xtra allows for both glucose and ketone testing, but different test strips must be used. The ketone test strips are expensive, but can be procured in bulk from some of our international participants...

[jolicoeur]

Thank you so much Slacker for this nice input.
I have to start looking for this.
Really appreciate

[Jafa]

Hi Stavia, There is a pea protein powder available at home. It's on the bottom shelf in my pantry. Can't remember the brand.

[Stavia]

Hi Stavia, There is a pea protein powder available at home. It's on the bottom shelf in my pantry. [emoji38] Can't remember the brand.

yay thanks Jafa

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