Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

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progranulindefect
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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby progranulindefect » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:32 am

i've read that stress depletes serotonin. i don't know the mechanism. low serotonin triggers carb cravings. i need to eat LC because i easily get high bg even from fruit. for me i would need to tackle lowering stress as the ultimate solution.

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Gilgamesh » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:36 am

Stavia wrote:I appreciate your honest discussion and your passion.

Huge ditto on that. Even a group as astonishingly open and friendly as ours risks falling into groupthink, and if we ever did fall into total groupthink, we'd need a bit of a slap to get us out of our dogmatic slumber. The fact that you, Swamp, fell in then out of a dogmatic slumber makes it perfectly natural that you'd want to help others you might feel needed to "see the (actual) light". That that would lead to strong word choice is forgivable, but Julie is of course right about the importance maintaining a respectful tone here, even if what you're feeling internally is: "People, wake up!!"

(It's worth noting that Stavia's doing her experiment is a good sign that we are in fact not an echo chamber!)

Swamp, thanks again for providing an important alternative viewpoint, and Stavia, thanks for trying an important alternative diet!
G

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby lol » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:15 pm

So, Stavia, I did think that your diet was high in animal protein and saturated fat. You don't need to be annoyed, however, because you rectified that in a following post. Over and done with. Hoping the best for you!

I am not Swamp's protector, and I don't agree with everything he says, but geez - I didn't see where his posts were offensive. Dr. Gundry seems to be the new savior here, that is until he isn't any more and has been replaced with someone with a new theory. What is wrong with pointing out that that his 90 day money back guarantee on his products is not happening with many purchasers on Amazon? It is not science, but people should be cautious before purchasing.

I could find links on the internet to support any diet/exercise/lifestyle that I believe in. Should I be doing that? Common sense also matters.

I will never in my life make my own soap. Probably won't buy a pressure cooker, either. It is good to have different opinions here, though. I hope those attending the low carb meeting/gathering in LA have a good time! We are all different in this world. :)

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby lol » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:29 pm

As soon as I finished posting and went back to my home page - boom - there it was again. Sign up and get a discount for a couple of new products from Dr. Gundry - Primal Plants and Lectin Sheild. Good to be an entrepreneur, but this is over-the-top. Am I supposed to not mention this and somehow refute his products scientifically?

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Stavia » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:52 pm

We at the conference now, its wondeful to be here!
I'll be summarising each days talks so our members can share our experiences :)

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Stavia » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:58 pm

ok team, totally inspired by the conference I intend to experiment with diverse diets as follows. (If life events dont eat up all my spare time again!)

my baseline and washout will be my usual diet which is about 70gm carbs, 60 gram total protein (half from veggies, half from a variety of fish and mussels locally caught - we dont have a mercury issue where I live), about 55% fat (one avocado a day, nuts, little bit of olive oil and the fatty fish). I normally run between 0.5 and 0.7 mmol/l ketones. My blood sugars are excellent. I feel healthy (when my life is sane!), I feel cognitively sharp and my coronary calcium score is zero.

First up I intend to trial Dave Feldmans very high saturated fat diet. I will be eating fatty meat, bone marrow, A2 butter and cheese plus the nuts and avo. Ill aim for 20gm carbs and about the same 60gm protein. I'll do it for 2 weeks.

2 weeks washout.

Then very low fat vegan Esseltyn style. I will aim for 10% fat, again keep protein constant at 60gms. This is going to be tricky, but I'll work it out. I don't like rice or quinoa particularly so I'll probably use our local sweet potatoes a lot. And try source hemp protein
I'll do this for a maximum of 8 weeks. If I feel awful without my usual ketosis, I will bail. But with so much gut microbiome fuel for the buyurate they produce, I may end up in ketosis....lets see.

2 weeks washout.

Then 4 weeks full on Gundry. Will source an instapot! Same macros as my baseline but sans lectins.

Biomarkers:
I will do fingerprick glucose frequently. Waking most days, and every 30mins post my main meal to 2 hours a few times during each period.
No point in doing Hba1c because of the lag.
Can't get fructosamine in my country.
I will test ketones frequently.

Basic lipids: I will probably do them weekly. More often during the high fat period, maybe daily. I cannot get an advanced lipid panel. But I can get apob. I'll do a baseline and one after the high fat and one after the very low fat.

I may pay for an IgF1 and fasting insulin at the end of each period.
I can't get adiponectin or any advanced inflammatory markers. I cant get HS-CRP and my CRP always tests at "less than 1" so thats useless.

I will weigh myself at the beginning and end of each period.

I will be watching how I feel very closely.

hmmm...what else? suggestions for measuring?

I will start after my son's wedding and Jewish High Holy Days in September - probably start in October. So I have a month to reset.

Thoughts?
Anyone want to join me?

.....now I'm committed....eeep
..

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Tincup » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:46 pm

Two thoughts- maybe blood sugar testing ought to be 45-60 minutes after meal rather than 30. Recall looking at literature that this is usually the max after meals.

I wonder if there is a way to do Esseltyn/Ornish and not compromise insulin function (also two weeks is not likely to compromise a good insulin function)? This is a true question, not a comment. I've done essentially all of these approaches over time - though haven't added in massive extra quantities of fat as per Dave Feldman's approach - it was just normal caloric high saturated fat.

The Esseltyn/Ornish gave me the lowest lipids, but maybe not the best lipids as HDL was low, too. However, I'm not far off from the Ornish numbers in my current Gundry incarnation. Also have lowest A1c I've ever measured - 4.6% (26.8 mmol/mol). Almost competitive with my wife's <4.25% (<23 mmol/mol). In the Ornish years did a OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test) on my own. Although it "passed" at the time, I now know from a Kraft Test perspective that it was not good and indicative of insulin resistance.
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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Stavia » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:52 pm

thanks George. I planned EVERY 30 mins for a couple hours until back to baseline so I have a curve. Could even do every 15 mins.

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Ladyjane » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:57 pm

"However, I'm not far off from the Ornish numbers in my current Gundry incarnation."

GeorgeN, How much of Gundry's protocol have you adopted? All of it or parts of it? And if parts of it, which parts?

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby apod » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:23 pm

Stavia wrote:thanks George. I planned EVERY 30 mins for a couple hours until back to baseline so I have a curve. Could even do every 15 mins.

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If you're really looking for the glucose curve and trying to catch the top edge, I'd go with a test every 15m until you see you're over the hump, then dial back to 30m for comfort. This sounds like a pretty awesome diet tour.


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