Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
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Stavia
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Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Stavia » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:44 am

I've been contemplating this for a long time. I believe that not one size fits all diet wise if IR remains low and biomarkers are good. But overwhelmingly I believe that a sense of wellbeing is paramount.

I have personally been under enormous stress and crushing workload and responsibility and my HFLC diet has gone out the window. I am struggling to eat as I feel nauseous most of the time (its exhaustion and overload, I'm not sick) and I feel high carb low fat low protein will be more palatable. Plus I would like to see how I feel on this and how my biomarkers change so I am better informed to interact with low fat vegan members. Lastly I truly believe there is more than one optimal diet and this is the best way I can show my commitment to this belief.

After my son's wedding in September I plan to do a vegetarian low fat 3 month trial. Why I chose vegetarian rather than vegan is I believe my country's grass fed, half A2 cheese in small amounts is ok, and my local free range (literally small farms pecking about in the dirt) eggs are too. I can even have my own chickens in my garden if I want. Many people do here.

I am already supplementing with B12 and omega 3s. My iron stores are great.

Suggestions? Comments?
How do I get enough protein? I am wary of tofu cos soya, and dont want to eat quorn.
I do not believe I am sensitive to lectins.

The 5 day fast was great. I'm looking forward to this!


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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby swampf0etus » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:10 am

Wow, excellent!
The one thing I found from switching to this approach from LCHF is that there is so much more you can eat. Although vegetarianism/veganism is restrictive in terms of animal products, I think LC is far more restrictive as a lot more foods are out of bounds (grains, beans, starchy veg, etc.). And if you're shooting for Ketosis, then it's a struggle to keep in it all the time. And of course, you've always got the nagging worry in the back of your mind that maybe saturated fat and high cholesterol are actually bad after all (which I now firmly believe they are).
The pro for LC for me was the ad libidum approach to eating. However, I've found that a whole food, virtually vegan, diet also allows me to eat ad libidum. I think with LC it's the protein whereas with whole food vegetables it's the fibre. Seriously, It's a struggle to maintain my weight on this diet and my wife threatens to kill me if I lose any more weight. I've not lost any in a while, maintaining a perfect BMI, but feel I'm eating as much as want, never hungry.
Protein was my first concern when I decided to experiment with this diet, so I got some expensive scales for measuring muscle mass. After almost a year I've not lost any muscle mass and I've managed to get some great gains with resistance training.
I get my protein from oats, nuts, beans, brown rice, wheat and lentils. I don't worry about the percentage. I researched vegan bodybuilding, and they just recommend eating enough calories and not worrying about protein, as long as protein containing foods are included in your diet.
Hope this proves successful for you.


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Russ
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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Russ » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:29 am

Stavia, Super cool. I strongly support listening to one's body, and sounds like yours is talking to you? Really look forward to hearing how it goes. As always, you're one step ahead! I've still got to catch up and do a legit fasting trial.

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Eat whole, real, flavorful food - fresh and in season... and mix it up once in a while.

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Julie G » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:37 am

I applaud your adventurous spirit and instinctive “listening to your gut.” I continue to assert that no one diet will work for us all. I can extend that thought to: no one diet will work for us all; all of the time. This may be a terrific re-set for you or a new long term pattern. Only by experimenting will you know for sure.

The decision to continue to use pastured eggs is a wise choice. Choline is critical to the brain in that it stimulates the production of acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter responsible for synaptic connections (i.e. memory). Other common vegan deficiencies, that you’re already addressing, are Omega-3, B-12 (homocysteine), and D3. It’s interesting to observe that the deficiencies that occur with a 100% vegan diet (with no supplementation) mirror those found in an Alzheimer’s patient. Additionally, E4 carriers may need higher levels of some of these because of our impaired fatty acid metabolism. Heeding these warning with supplementation and tracking & tweaking of various levels, should continue to offer you neuroprotection.

Lastly, because your ketone levels may drop, please keep a journal of your cognition, energy and mood. You’ve likely been creating at least small amounts of KBs to address your cerebral glucose utilization deficit. By journaling, you can easily identify a pattern and re-direct if necessary. We have hints that increasing SCFAs may result in BHB which could offset the difference. Testing KBs, will help you know for sure. I’ll also be very curious to see if this affects your ability to fast and the effect on your glycemic markers. Please share. xo

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby circular » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:48 am

I look forward to following Stavia! While different diets may work for different people, it may also be that different diets at different times in the same person may be good. I've toyed in my mind with switching diets monthly. Since becoming a stressed out caregiver a year ago I also find I'm eating more whole food carbs than I was, although am still probably low carb. I unexpectedly had trace ketones in recent bloodwork despite my greenish banana consumption (often two a day and with other carbs), a whole convenience food when under stress and short on time if ever there was one. But I'm not low fat, just sort of lectin mindful, MINDish Mediterranean, paleotarian ... and that'll probably change by noon :lol:

But enough about me. Can't wait to see how you do on low fat, and very interested in how different diets may be useful when under extreme stress, probably each type providing advantages and disadvantages :geek:

Also so sorry to hear about the rough rapids you're riding :cry: Hope it lets up before too long.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby Gilgamesh » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:45 am

Stavia, first, sorry about the stress in your life.

About your experiment: brava!

I was on a low-fat, low-calorie vegetarian diet for years, and did wonderfully. (But I suspect strongly it was the low-cal component thta conferred benefits.) But I decided I had to gain weight mostly because of sleep problems, and couldn't do so on a low-fat diet without my gut exploding (in fact, the attempt to do so gave me two hernias...), ergo the switch to high fat.

I assume you'll try to maintain the same weight to rule out a CR effect?

About protein: my protein source was beans (mostly lentils and black beans). Worked fine. (Just lop off 25–40% of the indicated total protein amount in CRON-O-meter to get egg equivalent amount.)

Can'g wait to see how it goes!
G

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby mimik67 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:02 am

Stavia you have nausea from stress or from diet or both? Are you having trouble with fat metabolism?

My concern that I just dont see raised here (perhaps I am in the extreme minority, but somehow I doubt it) is how people in their 40s and older can tolerate the large amounts of fiber and starch in a vegan or veg diet. At least long term. Most people I know in this age category have a history of antibiotic use. Abx kill off our good guys, leaving more bad guys to digest our carbs/fibers. I see a lot of people that end up with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (IBS or IBS/SIBO with gut symptoms and sometimes NOT gut symptoms but anxiety, restless leg, rosacea, fat malabsorption due to gut bugs decongugating our bile acids- and other markers of SIBO). People attempt vegan and veg diets with high amount of legumes and fiber foods and end up over a period of months with increased digestive distress....

So..... I am still waiting for people to post some lower fiber protein sources that have been helpful. :) Pea? Rice? Hemp?

I also have the added fun of having mast cell issues and excessive histamine load, (High whole blood histamine) and reduced DAO enzyme activity (this is genetic). And dysbiosis from antibiotic use so likely I have gut bugs that are producing excess histamine). So I need to take a DAO enzyme, eat lower/anti histamine foods, and likely steer mostly clear of protein powders-although i still search for one- and can only eat frozen at sea fish. The picture is complicated...

Julie can you please elaborate a bit here for us newer to the science:
We have hints that increasing SCFAs may result in BHB which could offset the difference. Testing KBs, will help you know for sure. I’ll also be very curious to see if this affects your ability to fast and the effect on your glycemic markers.


SCFAs (short chain fatty acids) from what? Resulting in BHB (what is BHB?)

Are you assuming that Stavia will stay in mild ketosis despite the macro switch?

Julie also am I getting any benefit from morning fasting even if I am not following LCHF? (I eat daily a small amount of carbs and my blood sugar and fasting insulin are ok-i will post in a separate thread). Julie if I go too deep into Ketosis (multiple days at 16+ hours of fasting, I think the increase in uric acid production from KB production-or possible oxalate dumping (thank you, gut damaged by antibiotic use history=dysbiosis and oxalate issues) So if I go over 16 hours my bladder is very unhappy.
3,4 but no family history of Altzheimers. However, mother likely had CIRS

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby apod » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:13 am

Very cool, I'm interested in hearing how this goes.

I remember my "summer of carbs" trial a while back (high protein + high carb) -- this was most excellent for strength training and getting to very low cholesterol labs. While it was slightly hypocaloric, I seemed to be doing the near-impossible task of losing fat while gaining muscle. If you're not against protein powders, there are many nice vegan proteins -- MRM has one that's mocha flavored, and more recently I tried a Legion Athletics version with Quinoa... and if you're not going full-vegan, whey protein is one of the best tasting ways to boost glutathione. When lots of dates, rice, and bananas, I found macro targets fairly easy to hit while eating crazy amounts of sugar and high-GI grains with seemingly little effect on visceral fat gain, body fat gain, triglycerides, sdLDL, or insulin resistance. I would generally eat these post-workout after fasted training.

I've heard good things about pressure cooking and lectins. If you don't have an Instant Pot, maybe pick one of those up. I also found Chana Dal beans to have a minimal GI-load, particularly soaked, pressure cooked, refrigerated, and reheated. Basically, a resistant starch bomb.

It would be interesting to readdress supplements from a vegan-stance -- maybe something like taurine twice a week, or creatine, or fish oil (algae?), possibly glycine. http://openheart.bmj.com/content/1/1/e000103

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby circular » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:51 am

I like a vision of a LFHC diet that's high in resistant starch (lower net carbs) moreso than a LFHC diet that's low in resistant starch (higher net carbs). I'm intrigued by the notion that focusing on resistant starch may allow greater carb consumption with fewer net carbs and potentially better overall physiological profiles via the biome etc., while still allowing for healthy fats, ketones via exercise, fasting etc. with a healthy caloric balance.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Stavia's Vegetarian very low fat trial

Postby KatieS » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:08 pm

It sounds like all of us are interested in your upcoming LFHC experiment. Personally, I feel better eating more seasonal fruits & non-gluten grains like millet, buckwheat, even occasionally oatmeal now, so I hope this holds for you. Varying our diets with cycles seems to be intuitively correct, but will the biomarkers substantiate this? You never had IR. Just hope you can keep your exercise regime with that exhausting workload. Thanks, Stavia for bringing up times that we need to not be rigidly burdening ourselves.


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