Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

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Thx4thegenes
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Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Thx4thegenes » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:15 am

Hi All,

My doctor has recommended the following supplements for my elevated Lp(a) 123 mg/dl and high LDL-P 1488 nmol levels. Total cholesterol 230, LDL 140, Triglycerides 71, HDL 74. C-Reactive Protein was 0.3. Homocysteine 7. Hemoglobin A1c 5.6. Fibrinogen 256 in the normal range. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience using these and if it helped. My new doctor mentioned that Niacin is "dirty" and doesn't like it. Not sure what he meant by that. He just recommended fish oil and not to eat saturated fats. Kind of recommended that I go back to being a vegetarian! :( I recall reading about plant sterols/stanols on a previous thread and that some are hypo absorbers, etc. Is that correct? It seems to me, that I probably would be! So not sure about that. I'll have to go back and research it.

I'm already taking fish oil and when this last testing was done, I was in the middle of a stressful move and other factors, lack of exercise at the time and probably not eating the best I could have been. I am now finally getting settled, getting into an exercise routine and eating better. I am hoping these changes help. I'm not sure if I need the blood thinning enzyme sups. and hope someone can shed some light.

Her recommendations:

For the elevated Lpa you can take fish oil
1-2 grams daily. You can also take one of 2 blood thinning enzyme supplements--nattokinase 50
mg twice a day or lumbrokinase 20 mg 1-2 times daily. You can also take niacin (the regular, not
the non flush type), up to 2 grams daily. It can cause flushing so you can start with a low dose,
even as low as 100 mg daily and slowly work up to the 1-2 grams daily. 2-3 grams of plant
sterols/stanols daily can also decrease the number of LDL particles and increase their size. This is
in foods but to get this much, a powder or capsule form is usually needed.

Thank you so much for your thoughts and recommendations!

Gotta love the genes! Thx!

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Stavia » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:16 am

Thomas Dayspring's interpretation of biochemistry and the evidence is that e4s hyperabsorb (not hypoabsorb) all sterols. And that plant sterols are preferentially absorbed thus supplementing with exogenous plant sterols will lower non-plant sterols ie cholesterol in the blood because our blood tests only measure cholesterol. However evidence seems to point that high plant sterols are not good in terms of atherosclerosis. This is a great example of how a surrogate marker may be misleading in terms of real outcomes.
Dayspring also reassured us that there arent enough plant sterols in a whole foods diet to be an issue.
Are you at risk of coronary heart disease? Have you had a calcium scan?

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Thx4thegenes » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:15 pm

Hi Stavia,

Thank you so much for your response. Sorry, I did mean to say hyperabsorb. So, it's better not supplement with plant sterols either. Thank you for explaining that to me. I don't think I'm at risk of coronary heart disease as the majority of my relatives have lived well into their 80's. My parents are 89! My father takes a low dose Niacin so maybe that is helping him. I mentioned the calcium scan to my previous doctor and she felt it wasn't necessary and there wasn't any testing facility nearby, maybe 2 hours drive. Since we've moved, I can look into it again and see if something is closer. My new doc didn't mention anything either.

Thx!

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Tincup » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Thx4thegenes,

From a Gundry perspective, with your results. He'd recommend 1000 mg Vitamin C morning & evening for the Lp(a). Worked for me. Niacin will too. He would likely want niacinimide or niacin with flush. With Triglycerides 71, HDL 74 ratio near 1, he'd be OK, though he'd rather have the TG's <50 - reducing through reducing carbs & protein. Also would want your A1C at 5.0% or lower, again through reducing carbs/protein (especially animal) He'd ignore the LDL-P ("designed to make people want to take statins"). Didn't care when my 4/4 wife had LDL-P of 2400. He definitely would be happy with the fish oil. Wants us to have 1000 mg/day of DHA. If you haven't tested your sterol absorption genetic status, likely avoid.
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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby KatieS » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:49 pm

Thx, I have a elevated lp(a) 153-207 at Quest's nmol (~75mg at LabCorp). Despite the vitamin C, niacin & fish oil, the result did not alter except once it was 10 (?). This is genetically wired and if you do not develop coronary disease, might be associated with longevity. Wonder if your parents have high lp(a) like mine. I wished I had spared myself some angst and had the zero coronary calcium scan earlier than age 64. If you're in your late 50s, you might consider the scan.
Your LDL-P is consistent with your LDL-C, not discordant like mine (another risk factor which spurred me towards statins). Although your A1c could be lowered. Possibly the stress of moving has shot these numbers up.
Wouldn't nattokinase or lumbrokinase impair clotting that might be associated with high lp(a)? I bruise very easily, so other than the aspirin 81 mg which I've taken for decades, I avoided adding on.

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Thx4thegenes » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:46 am

Hi Tincup and KatieS,

I'm sorry for my late response, but was out of state. Thank you for your replies to my questions. For months I was using the Vitamin C and amino acid protocol, but I suppose with no great outcome. I'll implement the Vitamin C and a low dose Niacin and see how that goes. As far as the Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase, which are blood thinning, due to the stickiness of the Lp(a), I found information on them about a year ago and was curious if it would help and if I truly need something like that:

https://www.drsinatra.com/beware-of-ele ... ol-levels/

I imagine one or both parents have Lp(a). I asked them to be tested, but when they go to the doctor's they talk about what's going on with them at the moment and then forgets to ask. Oh well. They are 89 and don't eat very well at this point, no exercise, etc. Something is protecting them. Perhaps it is this! One can only hope! I'll check to see about the coronary calcium scan in this area.

Thx!

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Thx4thegenes » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:23 am

Tincup, question. Does Dr. Gundry recommend basic ascorbic Vitamin C or something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Synergy-Radiance ... n+c+powder

Thx!

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Tincup » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:33 am

Thx4thegenes wrote:Tincup, question. Does Dr. Gundry recommend basic ascorbic Vitamin C or something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Synergy-Radiance ... n+c+powder

Thx!

He said Ester C was fine or other absorbable ones. See # 8 on Vitamin C in his video Q&A
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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Thx4thegenes » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:54 pm

Thank you so much Tincup!

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Re: Nattokinase/Lumbrokinase, Niacin and plant sterols/stanols

Postby Thx4thegenes » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:15 pm

Hmmm, any concerns over the calcium in Ester C?


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