Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

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Jan
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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby Jan » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:07 pm

Recording of the Facebook Live event with Dr Bredesen is at the IFM site.

https://www.functionalmedicine.org
put BREDESEN in the search function
scroll down to "Facebook Live with Dale Bredesen MD" in News & Insights
ba, mrc, cfnc, FMCA fmchc (candidate)
Bredesen training September 2017

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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby Tincup » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:07 pm

NewRon wrote:Yes, you understood correctly. The extra low glucose was after a sauna (sauna most mornings after exercise and breakfast which is at 11-11.45 am). Fasting glucose is normally 4.6/83.

I finish eating by 7-7.30 pm most days and begin eating around 11 am-noon. My evening meal is usually vegan salad, breakfast is 30g sourdough spelt bread with a boiled egg and lots of EVOO and gallons of fresh green tea. I usually only eat twice a day. Mineral water between 7 pm and 11 am.

I'm allergic to exercise but do some Foundation Training and some Pilates...with very bad grace. I'm 6'1" and 72kg.

Oh, my Prolon diet is arriving today. I've done an approximation (http://agingadvice.org/FMD-Recipes.html) a few times before, but this is the real thing. It should be interesting.


If the Prolon doesn't do it, just fast till you get there (says the guy who fasts 5 consecutive out of 14 days :lol: ).

The old "standard" to get into ketosis was to limit carbs to 20g/day with very moderate protein and unlimited fat. It could take a couple of weeks to get all the enzymes working. The other way is to just fast for 4 or 5 days. Also make sure you get enough sodium salt. Dr. Steve Phinney, who has been studying this for ~40 years says 5g/day sodium.
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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby Tincup » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:07 pm

NewRon wrote:Yes, you understood correctly. The extra low glucose was after a sauna (sauna most mornings after exercise and breakfast which is at 11-11.45 am). Fasting glucose is normally 4.6/83.

I finish eating by 7-7.30 pm most days and begin eating around 11 am-noon. My evening meal is usually vegan salad, breakfast is 30g sourdough spelt bread with a boiled egg and lots of EVOO and gallons of fresh green tea. I usually only eat twice a day. Mineral water between 7 pm and 11 am.

I'm allergic to exercise but do some Foundation Training and some Pilates...with very bad grace. I'm 6'1" and 72kg.

Oh, my Prolon diet is arriving today. I've done an approximation (http://agingadvice.org/FMD-Recipes.html) a few times before, but this is the real thing. It should be interesting.


If the Prolon doesn't do it, just fast till you get there (says the guy who fasts 5 consecutive out of 14 days :lol: ).

The old "standard" to get into ketosis was to limit carbs to 20g/day with very moderate protein and unlimited fat. It could take a couple of weeks to get all the enzymes working. The other way is to just fast for 4 or 5 days. Also make sure you get enough sodium salt. Dr. Steve Phinney, who has been studying this for ~40 years says 5g/day sodium.
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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby NewRon » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:50 am

Julie G wrote:Ron have you ever tried post-prandial tracking of your blood glucose after breakfast? My guess is that piece of bread adds a nice spike to your blood glucose making your goal of achieving ketosis less attainable. It would be interesting to check your BG before eating, at one hour, then at two. Then, rinse and repeat substituting the bread with your favorite non-starchy vegetable. (Broccoli or spinach are my top "breakfast" choices.) Also, have you ever tried tracking macronutrient ratios via CRON-O-meter? I've found that to be very helpful. Loose macros of around 70% fat, 15% carb, 15% protein keep me in ketosis combined with a long fast & exercise. You might be surprised to see that your carb % is much higher than expected which could be playing a part in your inability to achieve ketosis. Cool about the Prolon Diet! I'm eager to hear about your experimentation with that. That said, I noticed that the macros there are heavy on the carbs too...


No, I haven't tried testing after eating...well, not recently. I was imagining that the spike of the (genuine) spelt sourdough would be low and further blunted by the 45g of EVOO I put on it. I can try testing after I finish the Prolon. I must restart using Cronometer.

I've started the Prolon today and I've a fasting glucose of 4.3 mmol (77mg) before breakfast. I'll start doing ketones tomorrow, I think.
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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby NewRon » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:54 am

Tincup wrote:
NewRon wrote:Yes, you understood correctly. The extra low glucose was after a sauna (sauna most mornings after exercise and breakfast which is at 11-11.45 am). Fasting glucose is normally 4.6/83.

I finish eating by 7-7.30 pm most days and begin eating around 11 am-noon. My evening meal is usually vegan salad, breakfast is 30g sourdough spelt bread with a boiled egg and lots of EVOO and gallons of fresh green tea. I usually only eat twice a day. Mineral water between 7 pm and 11 am.

I'm allergic to exercise but do some Foundation Training and some Pilates...with very bad grace. I'm 6'1" and 72kg.

Oh, my Prolon diet is arriving today. I've done an approximation (http://agingadvice.org/FMD-Recipes.html) a few times before, but this is the real thing. It should be interesting.


If the Prolon doesn't do it, just fast till you get there (says the guy who fasts 5 consecutive out of 14 days :lol: ).

The old "standard" to get into ketosis was to limit carbs to 20g/day with very moderate protein and unlimited fat. It could take a couple of weeks to get all the enzymes working. The other way is to just fast for 4 or 5 days. Also make sure you get enough sodium salt. Dr. Steve Phinney, who has been studying this for ~40 years says 5g/day sodium.


I'll wait and see how the Prolon goes....after a 5 day fast, a BMI of 0 could be troublesome ;)
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 54

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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby NewRon » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:06 am

Julie G wrote:Ron have you ever tried post-prandial tracking of your blood glucose after breakfast? My guess is that piece of bread adds a nice spike to your blood glucose making your goal of achieving ketosis less attainable. It would be interesting to check your BG before eating, at one hour, then at two. Then, rinse and repeat substituting the bread with your favorite non-starchy vegetable. (Broccoli or spinach are my top "breakfast" choices.) Also, have you ever tried tracking macronutrient ratios via CRON-O-meter? I've found that to be very helpful. Loose macros of around 70% fat, 15% carb, 15% protein keep me in ketosis combined with a long fast & exercise. You might be surprised to see that your carb % is much higher than expected which could be playing a part in your inability to achieve ketosis. Cool about the Prolon Diet! I'm eager to hear about your experimentation with that. That said, I noticed that the macros there are heavy on the carbs too...


Julie,

As requested.

After rising late this morning I did a 10-12 minute Foundation Training stretching routine, a litre of Sencha Ariake green tea (unsweetned and freshly made) then had an 89 degree Centigrade sauna.

BS @ 1.00pm 4.2/76

Then I took two slices of a sourdough spelt from the freezer. As I don't eat much bread, I have it sliced when I buy it and then freeze it. I toasted the bread to thaw it and then weighed it and it weighed 85gr in total. It's a French bakery and queries about carb content were met with a Gallic shrug. A similar bread in the UK contains 50gr carbs per 100gr, so this portion contained about 43gr of carbs.

Anyway, a 55gr egg weighed before boiling was put into boiling water and boiled for 4 minutes, for a very soft boiled egg. The toasted spelt was laced with 55gr weight of EVOO and breakfast (brunch?) was had, along with another litre of green tea. I finished eating at 1.35pm but drank two more litres of green tea during the afternoon, which was completely sedentary,

BS @ 2.00pm 4.8/86

BS @ 2.30pm 6.7/121

BS @ 2.45pm 6.7/121

BS @ 3.00pm 6.4/115

BS @ 3.15pm 5.7/103

BS @ 3.45pm 6.2/112

BS @ 4.15pm 4.9/88

According to Cronometer, this works out as:

Protein 8%/17gr

Carbs 28%/64gr

Fat 64%/62gr

At this stage I ran out of test strips so the experiment ended. How does that blood sugar plot look?
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 54

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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby Stavia » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:23 am

A spike to 6.7 after 2 slices bread is predictable. You dropped back to baseline in 2 hrs. Thats good, your insulin response is appropriate.
For me the bottom line is what is your Hba1c? I personally don't put too much value on short lived spikes - I look at area under the curve and the HbA1c is the best surrogate of this.
Do you have a fasting insulin?

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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby NewRon » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:45 am

Last HbA1c was in Feb and was 32mmol/5.1. I did have a fasting insulin a few years ago and it was good iirc abut I can't find it now.
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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby NewRon » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:48 am

They give out stink to me for asking for all these tests and keep telling me I don't need them as there is nothing wrong. So I have to keep finding excuses to order them ;)
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Re: Dr Bredesen, interviewed by Dr Terry Wahls

Postby Stavia » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:49 am

ha!
Your hba1c is great. I wouldnt worry about the transient glucose spike.

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