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Heavy Metals testing

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
circular
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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby circular » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:59 pm

Anna wrote:That has basically been my approach, and I suspect very few people are free of metal toxicity. But when one is stuck going in circles with significant health challenges, and basic lifestyle/nutritional approaches aren't producing the anticipated result, it might be wise to dig deeper and see where efforts should be focused. I see metal toxicity as being a continuum, and I'd like to see where I sit. I think my biggest concern with doing the testing is the lack of agreement about how the testing should be done and how to interpret the results.

I hear you on all those points and share the same concerns :? Also, beyond the lack of certainty around testing and interpretation are the many protocols that seem to vary by practitioner. There may be more consistency there than I realize; it's just my impression that one's protocol depends more on one's practitioner than on established science. That said, the good news how many people are improving their health by being willing to try things, and it may not be that a precise protocol is needed so much as hitting enough nails on the head. To mix metaphors while staying with carpentry, Dr. Bredesen says that people improve on his protocol even if they don't successfully fix all the holes in their roof. Quite possibly, from testing method > interpretation > protocol there's a lot of room for fudge factors in the context of comprehensive changes.
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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby JML » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:52 am

Anna wrote:2. I'm fearful of the prep! What is involved in the prep? My doctor mentioned that the chelation agent used for the test might make me feel sick. Did anyone experience this? Will anything about the test tax an already-confused immune system?

For what it is worth, I have taken DMSA as part of the pre-post urine testing protocol (twice) and noticed no effects from the DMSA whatsoever. But everyone is different in their tolerance to substances.
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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby Anna » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:10 am

circular wrote:Dr. Bredesen says that people improve on his protocol even if they don't successfully fix all the holes in their roof. Quite possibly, from testing method > interpretation > protocol there's a lot of room for fudge factors in the context of comprehensive changes.


Agreed! I believe that for many people, heavy metal toxicity makes it more difficult to fix the other holes in the roof, and there is probably more than one "right" way to address this challenge. I'm going to start with doing the unprovoked urine test; it's only $99 and a 6 hour collection period (with no prep) to get this baseline data point.
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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby Anna » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:12 am

JML wrote:I have taken DMSA as part of the pre-post urine testing protocol (twice) and noticed no effects from the DMSA whatsoever.

Good to know!
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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby floramaria » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:15 pm

Anna wrote:
JML wrote:I have taken DMSA as part of the pre-post urine testing protocol (twice) and noticed no effects from the DMSA whatsoever.

Good to know!


Hi Anna, I have also taken the DMSA for then urine challenge test. I did not experience any side effects. Since my levels of lead and cadmium were very high, I am now doing a yearlong program of DMSA metal detoxification.While I have not have any symptoms of heavy metal toxicity, I know that I have had a lot of exposure, so the results made sense to me. And doing the detox also makes sense to me, though I spent many months after getting the test results reading about heavy metals and debating whether to go forward with this “treatment” or not.
I take 500 mg of DMSA 3X/day for 3 days, then take 11 days off. Will repeat this cycle for 25 cycles. I do not notice feeling any different on the days I take DMSA. Nor do I notice any difference in how I feel now that I am, at least hypothetically, getting rid of metals. (Have finished 8 rounds). When I re-test post chelation, I plan to test with Quicksilver Scientific and get their tri-test for Mercury. though I will probably also repeat the urine challenge and see what improvement (?) there is. As you can tell, though I have committed to the process I am not convinced that it is really valuable.
As a side note foranyone who plans to do DMSA chelation, after doing a HUGE amount of research on where to purchase DMSA, which is quite expensive, the best price was through a pharmacy that specializes in veterinary prescriptions.

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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby hairyfairy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:27 pm

When I was pregnant in the early 70`s, I had to have tons of amalgam fillings. I would love to do what David Bowie did back in the 90`s, & get all my teeth crowned with beautiful white caps. I can`t really afford this, & Iv`e read that removing silver fillings can flood the body with mercury, so I guess I`m stuck with them. I have read that selenium is good for taking mercury out of the body, & garlic is a good source.

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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby Anna » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:49 pm

floramaria wrote:I take 500 mg of DMSA 3X/day for 3 days, then take 11 days off. Will repeat this cycle for 25 cycles. I do not notice feeling any different on the days I take DMSA. Nor do I notice any difference in how I feel now that I am, at least hypothetically, getting rid of metals. (Have finished 8 rounds). When I re-test post chelation, I plan to test with Quicksilver Scientific and get their tri-test for Mercury. though I will probably also repeat the urine challenge and see what improvement (?) there is. As you can tell, though I have committed to the process I am not convinced that it is really valuable.

Thanks Floramaria for this info and for your perspective! I share your skepticism. Honestly, I feel like the more I read about heavy metal testing and treatment, the less I know. There seems to be little agreement out there regarding the best way to test and treat.

The Quicksilver Scientific website (https://www.quicksilverscientific.com/mercury-tri-test) raises some significant concerns about challenge testing, including redistribution of mercury into organs (Of course, there is the motivation to sell their own product!):
The Challenge Test does not differentiate between MeHg and Hgll. Only Total mercury level is represented (HgT).
The Challenge Test does not reflect the “pool” of mercury premise.
There is no “non-challenged” reference range to compare the challenge test; from a regulatory standpoint, there is an obvious potential for over-treatment.
– DMPS has a very different strength and specificity than DMSA.
– IV vs. oral administration has vastly different pharmacokinetics.
– Use of adjuncts such as EDTA, glutathione, and glycine vastly changes the dynamics of the test and its output.
Lack of standardization of challenge conditions.
– Challenge does not reflect long-term exposure as proven by clinical trial* reference p.120.
– Challenge does not reflect long-term exposure as proven by clinical trial* reference.
Challenge exposes individual to a large dose of exogenous substance.
Challenge may cause redistribution of mercury into organs, including the brain.
Challenge does not measure ambient mercury burden.
Challenge does not elucidate elimination abilities of the patient.
Challenge results can be skewed in individuals with renal insufficiency (common in Hgll toxicity).


Even so, for some of us, there may be significant risk in NOT doing the challenge testing.
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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby circular » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:52 pm

[quote=“Anna”]
Even so, for some of us, there may be significant risk in NOT doing the challenge testing.[/quote]
Hi Anna, could you clarify whether you mean not doing challenge testing instead of Quicksilver or instead of no testing at all, which might lead to not treating metal overload at all? In other words, is their something challenge testing does right that is informative in a way that Quicksilver isn’t? Sorry if this was already made clear.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Heavy Metals testing

Postby Anna » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:23 pm

circular wrote:Hi Anna, could you clarify whether you mean not doing challenge testing instead of Quicksilver or instead of no testing at all, which might lead to not treating metal overload at all? In other words, is their something challenge testing does right that is informative in a way that Quicksilver isn’t?

Sorry for the confusion. I meant compared to no testing (and therefore not treating). I didn’t look thoroughly at everything Quicksilver has to offer, but my understanding is the Tri Test that has been mentioned by others in this thread is just for mercury, whereas there are challenge tests that test for multiple heavy metals.
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Postby floramaria » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:58 pm

Anna wrote:The Quicksilver Scientific website (https://www.quicksilverscientific.com/mercury-tri-test) raises some significant concerns about challenge testing, including redistribution of mercury into organs (Of course, there is the motivation to sell their own product!):


I am a big fan of Christopher Shade and Quicksilver. Of course he is trying to sell his tests and his products, but he also has very informative webinars(and I find his hyper-caffeinated style entertaining). If I'd been able to find a doctor in my state or within 6 hours drive who would order the tests for me, and even more importantly, interpret the results, I'd have had testing through Quicksilver. My FM doc, who is lackadaisical about everything, was not interested in opening a Quicksilver account.

Now I've learned that since I am in a Direct Access State, I could order the Quicksilver test and take it to LabCorps. But still, if I test with Quicksilver I'll be in a bind over the results. They may help me with that, as I have found them very supportive over the phone. I now have an account with them, and I am using the Liver Push/Catch system and also taking their liposomal glutathione to help with the detoxing.

FWIW, in several Bredesen Town Hall meetings, Mary Kay Ross who is the detox expert working with Dr Bredesen, has said that she generally uses the Doctor's Data urine challenge test. That was one of the factors in my deciding to go that route instead of having to find a different doctor who'd order the Quicksilver test. Plus cost...$160 vs $525

I think the mercury tri-test is great if you are trying to determine what your source of elevated mercury is.... ie , is it coming from fish or from fillings For me, mercury is not the big issue, while lead and cadmium are both very high. As I was calling around the continent, trying to find a source of DMSA, I did check with several pharmacists who all agreed that for lead, DMSA is the best chelation agent.

circular wrote:In other words, is their something challenge testing does right that is informative in a way that Quicksilver isn’t? Sorry if this was already made clear.
?

Anna may have better/fresher info on this than I do, circ, but from the research I did, there did not seem to be any advantage to Doctor's Data urine challenge testing over the testing that Quicksilver does in terms of yielding better information. A lot of people question whether a challenge with a chelating agent is appropriate and whether the results really mean anything. That was part of my confusion. In my situation, some sort of testing seemed important since I have had decades of known exposure to lead and cadmium based pigments; and I was careless about protecting myself from inhaling them. :oops:

It will be interesting to see if a year of chelation therapy changes my urine challenge results. My plan is to find a way to follow up with Quicksilver test to compare results. Will post results, of course!

While I was typing this, you posted a new question. The tri-test (hair blood, urine) is for mercury only. That is Dr shade's claim to fame.
They also offer a highly sensitive heavy metal blood test that covers all the other metals.
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