Heavy Metals testing

[floramaria]

I’ve been struggling personally with how to remove the mercury I know remains in my body. I recently had a consult with Quicksilver about their protocol. Quicksilver’s position is that it is a BAD idea to use DMSA because chelators rip mercury through cell membranes, damaging the lovely membrane structure.

I don’t know how to reconcile the teachings of the Institute for Functional Medicine on DMSA with those of quicksilver, but DO know from personal conversations that many of the Institute for Functional Medicine teachers, like Dr Bredesen, recommend and use Quicksilver products.

Rather than chelation, Quicksilver’s protocol uses liposomal glutathione to envelop mercury and eliminate it. The remainder of the protocol keeps the membranes healthy and keeping B Vitamins and Antioxidants replete through the process. It seems like a good first pass. At worst an expensive way of doing no harm.

Hi charbor,

thanks. Interesting info from Quicksilver consult. Does the liposomal glutathione protocol work just for mercury, or will it work for other metals as well? Because I worked as a house painter, I may have had lead exposure. That was decades ago, but I failed the VCS for some reason. Used to have a lot of amalgam fillings. Those were removed, albeit carelessly. Past 30 years an artist I have been exposed repeatedly to pigments containing cadmium for sure and i don’t know what other toxic metals might have been in the mix. I was using a lot of powdered pigments to mix my own paints.
Have been told that local water supply is very high in arsenic, but mainly drink filtered water, and heard in one of the toxicity in terviews along the way that arsenic generally is excreted within a few days as long as there is sufficient water intake. I am just trying to rule out, one by one, factors that might undermine my cognitive well-being.

[charbor]

Hi floramaria

"Does the liposomal glutathione protocol work just for mercury, or will it work for other metals as well?"

Quicksilver indicates glutathione is stronger against mercury than against other metals because of mercury’s binding affinity with sulfur, a major constituent of glutathione. But I find lots of references suggesting glutathione involved protection from and removal of other heavy metals. QS also uses a very expensive thiol and silica powder to bind metals. Their protocol specifically uses EDTA to bind lead.

Have you already looked into mold? It is a low-lying fruit of VCS issues. You could possibly talk your Primary Care Provider into doing the 3 tests that help sort that out: A pattern that raises concern for mold:

Low VEFG
Elevated C4a
Low MSH. 

I am sure other things could create this pattern, but carbon-based molecules (called biotoxins because they come from life forms) rather than mercury trigger the innate immune system. These are discussed in other threads

And you might get more insight into the relative burden of oxidative stress from testing lipid peroxides and oxidized LDL (again, both tests a Primary Care Provider could run). Oddly, I don’t find that mold damages these parameters. (no publication to justify this, but I’ve looked for a pattern in my patients and not found one) The level of oxidative stress might point to a strong need for heavy metal detox (more damage than repair capability)

That said, it seems that the presence of heavy metals exacerbates the immune system’s cascade into the sort of over-activation that leads to VCS failure: https://www.omicsonline.org/harmful-int ... p?aid=5651

So around we go! We humans are such complicated creatures...

Cathryn

[floramaria]

Hi floramaria

Have you already looked into mold? It is a low-lying fruit of VCS issues. You could possibly talk your Primary Care Provider into doing the 3 tests that help sort that out: A pattern that raises concern for mold:
Low VEFG
Elevated C4a
Low MSH. 

I am sure other things could create this pattern, but carbon-based molecules (called biotoxins because they come from life forms) rather than mercury trigger the innate immune system. These are discussed in other threads

And you might get more insight into the relative burden of oxidative stress from testing lipid peroxides and oxidized LDL (again, both tests a Primary Care Provider could run). Oddly, I don’t find that mold damages these parameters. (no publication to justify this, but I’ve looked for a pattern in my patients and not found one) The level of oxidative stress might point to a strong need for heavy metal detox (more damage than repair capability)

That said, it seems that the presence of heavy metals exacerbates the immune system’s cascade into the sort of over-activation that leads to VCS failure: https://www.omicsonline.org/harmful-int ... p?aid=5651

So around we go! We humans are such complicated creatures...

Cathryn

Thanks, Cathryn, for sharing your insights with me. I cannot overstate how grateful I am to you and to each person who has added his or her input on this and every other question I have raised on this website. My heartfelt thank you to each of you for your kindness and generosity in sharing your knowledge and experience with those of us who, like me, have more recently begun this journey.
I have posted a few times in the past about frustration over trying to find a PCP in NM who would be able to oversee the aspects of Dr Bredesen's protocol that I cannot put in place for myself. And in this ideal world in which I have this knowledgeable PCP, I would not have to try to learn about everything myself which, of course, I can't do overnight or even over many months.

There is a FM doc who prescribed E2 and progesterone for me. So that is progress. All the same, this doc did not ask me if I have amalgam fillings before prescribing DMSA. He seems to understand that though I am not ill, I'm motivated by my ApoE4 status and family history to optimize my health as much as possible. I told him I had failed the VCS test, and brought the printed results to him. He mentioned that the test for mold would be $700 and did not seem to think that it is necessary. He would probably order any test I ask for (and pay for), but are you suggesting that these tests you mention above that could point to mold and the ones for lipid peroxides and oxidized LDL are tests he can run himself? Your talk of f looking into mold as "low-lying fruit" is new to me; I was under the impression that mold toxicity is very complex , both in diagnosis and treatment. Perhaps I should be starting there since the VCS test specifies biotoxicity. Somehow, I hadn't made that connection, that the "bio" of biotoxicity
means it comes from other life forms. I may have metal toxicity too, but maybe looking at biotoxins is where I should be focusing next since the VCS test is indicating that as a problem.

So around we go indeed! Looking forward to reading some of the biotoxin threads tomorrow.

[slacker]

...Have you already looked into mold? It is a low-lying fruit of VCS issues.

Cathryn

...I have posted a few times in the past about frustration over trying to find a PCP in NM who would be able to oversee the aspects of Dr Bredesen's protocol that I cannot put in place for myself. And in this ideal world in which I have this knowledgeable PCP, I would not have to try to learn about everything myself which, of course, I can't do overnight or even over many months.

Oh Floramaria, I feel your pain. I am working remotely with an experienced Bredesen trained MD who has a background with CIRS as well, and still run into road blocks and uncertainties. It is the nature of the CIRS beast. I continue to pursue my own education on CIRS to have a better appreciation of what to expect and what questions to ask, in addition to working with one of the most knowledgeable providers available. There is a video posted of a CIRS talk with Drs Mary Kay Ross and Bredesen from the San Diego conference that I have not watched, but may provide you with a helpful overview (if you haven't looked at it already). Overviews rarely provide adequate details on how to prioritize testing, or how to proceed once test results are in. Dr Richie Shoemaker is the CIRS guru, but I find his website difficult to navigate and hard to apply to my unique situation (survivingmold.com). I signed up for a Shoemaker membership, but so far do not see the value in it. I have purchased Dr Sandeep Gupta's online course in CIRS; he is an Australian physician who is Shoemaker trained, and has skill in presenting the concepts to make them more understandable. His videos go into greater depth than any one hour presentation can.

As far as Cathryn's low lying fruit comment, the vast majority of people with CIRS have mold issues. Shoemaker recommends mold evaluation first for everyone with positive CIRS symptoms and tests due to this. Once you have the results, it's not always straightforward on what to do next (in my limited N=1 experience!). I am willing to share details of my experience, but it may not apply to all going down this path. (It may also be helpful to set up a unique thread for further general CIRS conversations...)

[floramaria]

Thanks, Slacker. Sometimes commiseration is good medicine!
I'd be very interested in any information you are willing to share. And agree a thread named Heavy Metal Testing is not the ideal place to discuss CIRS. I am looking up references on the Forums to see what I can turn up. Other than failing the VCS test, I don't seem to have any symptoms, at least as far as my understanding of the symptoms goes. No fatigue, no exercise intolerance, no pain. Lots of confusion....

looks like this is the place to be for CIRS discussion: /www.apoe4.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... ributor+to
Flora

[charbor]

...

.. road blocks and uncertainties. It is the nature of the CIRS beast. Dr Richie Shoemaker is the CIRS guru, but I find his website difficult to navigate and hard to apply to my unique situation (survivingmold.com). I signed up for a Shoemaker membership, but so far do not see the value in it. I have purchased Dr Sandeep Gupta's online course in CIRS

As far as Cathryn's low lying fruit comment, the vast majority of people with CIRS have mold issues. Shoemaker recommends mold evaluation first for everyone with positive CIRS symptoms and tests due to this.

as to my earlier low hanging fruit comment, I simply intended to say that mold illness is very inflaming and perhaps a more likely cause of VCS abnormality than mercury. While unravelling all the parts is not simple, moving as rapidly as you can from dampness and mold exposure is critical.
Again, to eval reaction to mold exposure likelihood, I'd do the tests above --c4a msh, vegf - and perhaps add TGFbeta-1 to try to sort it out.

Agreed, Shoemaker is brilliant but not necessarily the gentlest teacher

[floramaria]

While unravelling all the parts is not simple, moving as rapidly as you can from dampness and mold exposure is critical.
Again, to eval reaction to mold exposure likelihood, I'd do the tests above --c4a msh, vegf - and perhaps add TGFbeta-1 to try to sort it out.

Thanks for continuing to clarify this complicated area, charbor.
As for dampness....I moved to northern New Mexico almost 30 years ago.
Dampness is an extremely rare quality here. We have skin-cracking dryness.
But I do understand that the overall environment is
no protection against mold that may be flourishing in areas where there are
water leaks and poor air flow. Remember reading a story that the Santa Fe Public Library was closed
for extensive mold mitigation several years ago.

I have my second appointment with my somewhat reluctant FM doctor in two weeks.
Will see if he can/will order the tests.
Because I do not have any intense manifesting health issues, he seems to take my concerns with
several grains of salt...
For now, he is better than no one, and I am hopeful that he will come to understand the advantages
of addressing potential undermining factors as early as possible for everyone carrying the ApoE4 allele.

[Julie G]

Flora, I’ve got a few ideas that I’ll share in this thread.

[floramaria]

Flora, I’ve got a few ideas that I’ll share in this thread.

Thanks, Julie G.
I have the CIRS thread bookmarked, and am reading through the great information there.
will be traveling and away from all the info stored on my computer, so I will post my VCS
test results on that thread too, since that was what alerted me to potential problems.

flora

[Red Tara]

Greetings. I am new to this site but do have some experience with heavy metals testing and chelation.
7 years ago I was tested with a challenge test and had very high levels of lead and mercury. I received IV chelation for some time.
I was recently retested and my levels were still high, though much lower than before so I've committed to a year of IV chelation.

I'd like to know more about being able to do oral chelation while I'm traveling this winter.
My main issue right now is lead. I'm glad to see this discussion and many knowledgeable people.

Em
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