I’m confused about 4/4s and how much saturated fat is ok

[CarrieS]

Good Morning manny.burgess and Welcome to the Forums.

Since you are new here, I'd like to give you a couple of tips to help you navigate around the website.

A quick resource titled "How-To" Get the most out of the ApoE4.info website can be found here.

Member Dr. Stavia has created a Primer that covers diet and lifestyle information that you may find helpful as you try to figure out what works best for you and your unique physiology.

When you get a moment, we'd love to hear more about you and what brought you to the website and this caring and supportive community.

[floramaria]

Greetings. I'm new here.
I see mixed opinions about the effect of saturated fat on 4/4's. My question is whether there has been some research to look at the idea that it might be grain fed animal protein that contributes to AD and MCI in 4/4, and if grass fed meat is just as dangerous. Wahls certainly supports animal fat intake.

Hello, manny.burgess, and welcome!

You are absolutely correct that there are many differing opinions about saturated fats for 4/4's and for the population as a whole. There are people who make a strong distinction between grassfed, pastured animal protein and fat, and grain fed, and others who don't.
It is an area of controversy. I fall into the first camp, myself, as that is the interpretation of some of the people whose work I know and respect, like Terry Wahls, who you mention. But it ends up being a personal decision based on how your body feels and which arguments make most sense to you. You can read many opinions about saturated fat on this website by using the Search Function, which you access with the Magnifying Glass to the left of your user name, top of page.
I echo Carrie in suggesting that if you haven't seen it yet, the Primer is an excellent place to begin.
If and when you feel ready to tell us more about yourself, Our Stories is a good place to post your introduction.
Meanwhile, we are happy you have joined us and welcome your participation.

[Stavia]

Greetings. I'm new here.
I see mixed opinions about the effect of saturated fat on 4/4's. My question is whether there has been some research to look at the idea that it might be grain fed animal protein that contributes to AD and MCI in 4/4, and if grass fed meat is just as dangerous. Wahls certainly supports animal fat intake.

Hello Manny and welcome. No, there is no research about this and currently it is all opinion, which as you see differs vastly.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Russ]

Greetings. I'm new here.
I see mixed opinions about the effect of saturated fat on 4/4's. My question is whether there has been some research to look at the idea that it might be grain fed animal protein that contributes to AD and MCI in 4/4, and if grass fed meat is just as dangerous. Wahls certainly supports animal fat intake.

I am not aware of any research that specifically addresses APOE4, AD/MCI and meat production system (grains vs grass finishing).

What we do know is that there are pretty significant differences, but we don't know if those differences make a difference. Best reference on the significant differences is here:

Daley, Cynthia A., et al. "A review of fatty acid profiles and antioxidant content in grass-fed and grain-fed beef." Nutrition journal 9.1 (2010): 10.
https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/tr ... -2891-9-10
Note the differences in both fatty acids and select micronutrients (a few fat soluble vitamins). I would discourage thinking of the differences along any single dimension (e.g. omega 3's). I really believe that when food has a difference, it is most often due to the whole thing in it's natural package.

Best paper on whether those differences make any difference, that I am presently only aware of, is this single study that assess a few aspects of plasma differences in a controlled cross-over trial, which is intriguing, but small (20 people):

McAfee, A. J., et al. "Red meat from animals offered a grass diet increases plasma and platelet n-3 PUFA in healthy consumers." British Journal of Nutrition 105.1 (2011): 80-89.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/R ... 11f3561d85

What I find most interesting about this study is that were any noticeable differences at all in a study which only had 3 planned different meals per week for 4 weeks. What seems clear is that there was preferential take-up of the differences present in the provided beef and lamb. But one has to assume that the body is preferentially take up good nutrients to say that those differences are positive, as there is (of course) no outcome measurement possible on such a very short study.

Such research is incredibly complicated and I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it. And although there is no direct association with AD impact implied, I do not find it a big leap to chose the product more of the nutrients that we presently think are generally a good thing.

Finally, to the extent you choose to care about such differences, I would offer a note of caution to not simply accept a claim on a label of "grassfed." There is very wide definition of what passes for grassfed at present. Personally, I choose to source only from a local farmer I have come to know personally. If you can't find someone local you can trust, there are options online. If you're in the US, I previously got a different friend to set up a discount code for members of this group who are interested. Simply go to...

https://grasslandbeef.com

...and enter the code "APOE4" for a discount on your 1st 2 orders. Can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it's a 15% discount.

Meanwhile, stay tuned in the future as this is the problem I spend most all of my days focussed on.

Russ

[ru442]

Excellent response Russ, I would also recommend going to https://eatwild.com to find local farmers in your area that have pastured products, that is where I found several of my local farmers I buy from.

[manny.burgess]

Thank you for your welcome. And I do appreciate and will read the references you mentioned. So nice to see so many intelligent people here. So many books around the house -Perlmutter, Hyman, Wahls, Bredesen, Amen, etc., and so many DVD's to see. Seems like every week there is one more new "summit" with opinions of health and the brain So I'm a bit overwhelmed by the amount of material out there to read about cogniitive decline and lifestyle, and so I have to pace myself (and work half-time) so I don't go a crazy - whoops, too late. Briefly, I was referred to this site by a woman who cooks paleo/antiinflammatory for me and my wife (age 70 with dementia from MS). Though no physical limitations other than fatigue, her cognition has gotten significantly worse this year, which motivated me in my desperation to work more closely with a func. med. MD, and lately to consider the Bredesen protocol (expensive). I looked up my wife's 23andme account which now shows risk for ALZ, and of course was a little knocked to the ground to see she was 4/4. I'm trying very hard to clean up our act in so many ways - diet, exercise, brain exercise, sleep, 3/12+ fasting, yoga, socializing, SLS free toothpaste, homemade hair spray, stainless steel pans, etc., and looking at other things to try (a seemingly endless list) like shutting off wifi and other EMR, etc. And then, just when I thought our diet was pretty OK and thrilled to find a local grass-fed butcher, I see the warnings about saturated fat and Apoe4. Good golly miss molly - I sure hope they don't find out next year that lemons are toxic. Caretaking (and even harder- researching/learning while caretaking) is definitely not for sissies (is this still a word that's used?). I love reading about technology and the future (i.e. Kurzweil), and can't help thinking that if we can just live another 20 years, these mysteries will be solved. My apologies if I'm posting this info in the wrong location.

[NF52]

Caretaking (and even harder- researching/learning while caretaking) is definitely not for sissies (is this still a word that's used?). I love reading about technology and the future (i.e. Kurzweil), and can't help thinking that if we can just live another 20 years, these mysteries will be solved. My apologies if I'm posting this info in the wrong location.

Hi Manny,
No apologies needed, for posting here or anywhere else on the forum! Instead, a deep bow of admiration from me--a 66 year old 4/4 woman who knows just how much care--with all the other emotions that brings--goes into caretaking. Definitely not for the faint of heart. I think back to how my 30 year old self thought people in their 60's and 70's were set in their ways, less open to new experiences, done with challenges like those faced by an intrepid 30 year old. Rubbish!!

So give yourself permission to sometimes take a break from the firehose of information competing for your attention and enjoy the present with your wife. What would you both want to look back on next August as experiences you've had, people you've met or re-visited, foods you tried, music you've heard etc. It gave me great freedom four years ago when I found my 4/4 status to suddenly decide to figure out how to use the rail and bus system in Wales to visit Portmeirion (where The Prisoner TV series was filmed), a bucket list item for my husband, and a chance to see some of my ancestors' home world.

I also found it useful to read How to be A Stoic [/u by Pigiiucci--we can decide on what we bring on the journey and some of the places we visit, and be at peace with the unknowns of the outcome.

[Rainy]

Omigosh, I just checked in for a booster shot after some time away from this marvelous forum! I should have known you were here offering your unique and kind support today, NF52! Thanks to you I just reserved How to be a Stoic from the public library. So very timely for me with too much going on and feeling like I was slipping up a bit on the diet protocol I prefer to follow as I work toward keto. Bottom line I just need to cut through all the crap, as my Dad, who would have celebrated his 89th birthday today, was wont to say. The book snippet resonated with me: "Stoicism is a pragmatic philosophy that focuses our attention on what is possible and gives us perspective on what is unimportant. By understanding Stoicism, we can learn to answer crucial questions: Should we get married or divorced? How should we handle our money in a world nearly destroyed by a financial crisis? How can we survive great personal tragedy?" I feel my resources refilling, many thanks!!!

[Plumster]

I thought I'd share the results of a recent cholesterol test that I had (Feb 2018) that showed I absorb too much cholesterol, which is crazy because I am vegan, so there is essentially NO animal cholesterol in my diet. My doctor explained that it was likely due to Apoe 4. I produce and absorb more. What we can do is limit cholesterol from food, at least. Beta-Sitosterol is vegaetable oils, avocado, and nuts. Campesterol is canola oil and soybean oil. I have since greatly limited the amount of oils and sat fat I consume, also in an effort to balance Omega 3 and 6. The same test also told me to limit saturated fats to no more than 10% of total calories per day.

[slacker]

I thought I'd share the results of a recent cholesterol test that I had (Feb 2018) that showed I absorb too much cholesterol, which is crazy because I am vegan, so there is essentially NO animal cholesterol in my diet. My doctor explained that it was likely due to Apoe 4. I produce and absorb more. What we can do is limit cholesterol from food, at least. Beta-Sitosterol is vegaetable oils, avocado, and nuts. Campesterol is canola oil and soybean oil. I have since greatly limited the amount of oils and sat fat I consume, also in an effort to balance Omega 3 and 6. The same test also told me to limit saturated fats to no more than 10% of total calories per day.

Hi Plumster;

There is a little bit of information about sterols in the wiki; you can find it here.

If you search on sitosterol, you'll find multiple hits, most of which are just mentioning sitosterol and not discussing it. With the search function (magnifying glass in left upper corner toolbar), you can limit the search by selecting subject searches only. Hope this helps.