Fish Oil

[LA18]

Circular, I’m hesitant to post this because it is nothing but anecdotal but I feel notably different (better) when I regularly take Carlson Lab’s (unflavored) cod liver oil (dha 500, epa 400). I don’t perceive this benefit with the capsule form of any fish oil, probably because I’m bothered by whatever else is in it (eg. sulfite). Anyway, I’ve tried many different brands, and krill oil, and this one is it for me. I also have chronic inflammation, a history of ocular rosacea, mast cell disorder, etc.

[circular]

Thanks LAC1965. You never know when anecdotal might be useful. Does it help your mast cell issues? I have those too, and after reading about the EPA and inflammation and eicosanoids in the brain, I wondered if I maybe I need supplemental EPA. I can control my brain fog to an extent via histamine control, but there's clearly more to it than that, and antihistamines don't help.

[Julie G]

I just realized that we're missing one of the most important papers on this subject in this thread. This study is groundbreaking in that it examined Omega-3 levels in an exclusively E4 data set. Rather than comparing our population to the general population (which typically results in E4 carriers demonstrating no benefit;) researchers compared HIGH Omenga-3 levels (mean: 216.00 nmol/mL) vs. LOW Omega-3 levels (mean: 102.30 nmol/mL) among E4 carriers using both cognitive testing and brain imaging.

Here's the press release:
Omega-3 fatty acids enhance cognitive flexibility in at-risk (ApoE4+) older adults
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 084322.htm

Summary:
A study of older adults at risk of late-onset Alzheimer's disease found that those who consumed more omega-3 fatty acids did better than their peers on tests of cognitive flexibility -- the ability to efficiently switch between tasks -- and had a bigger anterior cingulate cortex, a brain region known to contribute to cognitive flexibility.

Here's the paper. It links to full-text.
Anterior cingulate cortex mediates the relationship between O3PUFAs and executive functions in APOE e4 carriers.
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/ ... 7/abstract

This paper provides a strong argument in favor of serum testing your Omega-3 level. This may be especially true for vegans who opt to rely on ALA conversion.

[circular]

Thanks for that. I find this perspective valuable to keep in mind:

"A lot of work in cognitive aging focuses on memory, but in fact cognitive flexibility and other executive functions have been shown to better predict daily functioning than memory does," Zamroziewicz said in the news release.

Executive function refers to skills such as reasoning, planning, problem solving, paying attention, impulse control and task switching.

"These functions tend to decline earlier than other cognitive functions in aging," Zamroziewicz said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fish-oil-ma ... er-adults/

[LA18]

circular, I’m not sure on the mast cell response. The main benefit I perceive is cognitive (interesting in light of the article above), which could be due to a reduction in inflammation from my overactive mast cells. I recently read an article postulating that DHA enhances brain glucose metabolism, which is clearly a problem for me, so maybe that’s part of the picture as well. I had to try so many different brands of fish oil because I’m so reactive to histamine, with no relief from antihistamines either. As it turns out, I can only tolerate salmon oil and cod liver oil. Any other kind and I get that baked mast cell/histamine feeling, almost like I’m drugged. The same goes for fish. Salmon is okay, but no shellfish, etc. Shockingly, I can eat Wild Planet sardines packed in water with no negative effects whatsoever! The first time I tried them I sat there waiting for the cloud to descend…., and nothing. And no flushing at all, which I get from all other fish except salmon. Do you have trouble with fish other than salmon?

[circular]

LAC so funny, I eat salmon and Wild Planet sardines too. Also Whole Paycheck wild Atlantic cod (better for you than Pacific cod - go figure). I recently reintroduced the sardines. I'd grown concerned I was reacting to them in a big way and took them out for a while. There are always other triggers going on unless I stop living and breathing, so it's hard to say. Generally I do best with flash frozen fish, thawed briefly in cool water, then cooked and eaten. I have more experimenting to do, but I think the worst for me may be fermented foods, vinegar and all condiments including my favorites olives and capers. But it's really hard to know because I drink coffee, eat fruit, take some probiotics, exercise etc, so the triggers are many and hard to pin down individual items. I think my vitamin C powder (abt 1700 mg/day) helps and a low dose of Ketotifen. And I just plain need to crash many days, cancel everything on my calendar, get strict and recouperate. Really my biggest improvement came with just 1 mg of Ketotifen a day, but it's not like it solved anything, just got some vital energy so I have more good days, and sleep better.


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[Julie G]

Circ, researching what type of Omega-3 is best for vision lead me to this excellent detailed link from the Linus Pauling Institute on essential fatty acids:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/other-nu ... atty-acids

DHA is found at very high concentrations in the cell membranes of the retina; the retina conserves and recycles DHA even when omega-3 fatty acid intake is low (18). Animal studies indicate that DHA is required for the normal development and function of the retina. Moreover, these studies suggest that there is a critical period during retinal development when inadequate DHA will result in permanent abnormalities in retinal function. Research indicates that DHA plays an important role in the regeneration of the visual pigment rhodopsin, which plays a critical role in the visual transduction system that converts light hitting the retina to visual images in the brain (19).

Eating fish as often as you do, probably makes Omega-3 supplementation less important...but it's good for all of us to be aware of how little DHA is naturally created by our bodies from ALA:

The capacity to generate DHA from ALA is higher in women than men. Studies of ALA metabolism in healthy young men indicate that approximately 8% of dietary ALA is converted to EPA and 0-4% is converted to DHA (6). In healthy young women, approximately 21% of dietary ALA is converted to EPA and 9% is converted to DHA (7). The better conversion efficiency of young women compared to men appears to be related to the effects of estrogen (8, 9). Although ALA is considered the essential omega-3 fatty acid because it cannot be synthesized by humans, evidence that human conversion of EPA and, particularly, DHA is relatively inefficient suggests that EPA and DHA may be considered conditionally essential nutrients. (Emphasis mine)

Another quick thought: given how helpful ketotifen has been to your overall health, have you tried ketotifen eye drops? I find them really helpful.

[circular]

Yep, I've been using Ketotifen eye drops for quite awhile. I found the dry eye drops ("tears") didn't work as well. I asked the opthamogist whether it was okay to use the K eyedrops daily and he launched into how the vast majority of his patients like me have dry eye rather than allergies (mast cell irritation), and it's true my symptoms better match dry eyes. They gave me a bottle of Refresh Optiva Advanced and have to say it's working about as well as Ketotifen.

Will take a look at the link ...

I haven't been omega supplementing because of my very high fish intake - 1-2 servings a day - but it seems it doesn't do a thing for my dry eye problem, and I wondering that's indicative of my brain needing more. Am trying Nutrasea for a better value that's in triglyceride form. I also noted that the PRN formula for dry eyes is higher in EPA, and when I looked up fish content it was generally lower, so maybe I'm in EPA deficit as reflected in dry eye on a high fish diet? I'm getting very curious about a possible vital EPA/DHA ratio.

Better check your link before I say more ...


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[KatieS]

This combination of fish oils have worked for both my mom & myself:
Thera-Tears (
Nordic Naturals DHA (
Total EPA=540, DHA 750 and ALA-450. If we drop the Thera-Tears, I notice the dry eyes again, so there does seem to be a benefit with that combination.

However, unlike Cir, I only eat fish a few times per week.

In addition, we have to use the night mineral oil lubricant and Systane Balance eye drops during the days. However, the latter is decreased by half using this combination of fish oils. Also, my mom uses Restasis, but I hope to avoid an immunosuppressant eye drop. Using a morning eye lid wash ( helps to avoid eye infections likely due to chronically dry eyes and possibly stimulates the oil glands.

[LA18]

Circular, great that the ketotifin is helping some. I also avoid the foods you listed. Balsamic vinegar is the worst. No need for alcohol or drugs when I can just have some salad dressing….. Seriously, 1 tablespoon and I have slurred speech, balance problems, sluggish thinking. Walnuts are also a problem, as are some, but not all, pecans.

Interesting about the flash frozen fish. I’ve been wanting to try for a bit more diversity in my diet and will give that a shot. Thanks.