Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

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PeterM
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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby PeterM » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:46 pm

Although the TauRex’s July 2016 LMTX results were generally disappointing, I tend to agree with J11 that the whole Methylene Blue story is yet to be told. Even if MB were to slow protein misfolding by a modest 20%, that would still delay onset by years for many of us at risk. Given its long track record for safety, low-dosing clean Methylene Blue might be worth the minimal risk. If anyone can figure out how to dose 8 mg (2x 4 mg a day) of the Kordon product Tincup had tested it would be hugely appreciated.

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby aphorist » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:56 pm

PeterM wrote:Although the TauRex’s July 2016 LMTX results were generally disappointing, I tend to agree with J11 that the whole Methylene Blue story is yet to be told. Even if MB were to slow protein misfolding by a modest 20%, that would still delay onset by years for many of us at risk. Given its long track record for safety, low-dosing clean Methylene Blue might be worth the minimal risk. If anyone can figure out how to dose 8 mg (2x 4 mg a day) of the Kordon product Tincup had tested it would be hugely appreciated.


I don't know the dosing on TauRex, but supposedly it was too high, such that it caused reactive oxygen species and probably had a negative outcome. That was the knock on it from Dr. Gonzalez-Lima.

In terms of dosing, it's not complicated really. Go to ebay, buy 1000 mg or whatever, put 60 mg in a bottle of water and drink it over an hour.

Then after you do this 2-3x, you will realize what a nightmare all the blue staining is. Your mouth is blue, your kitchen tabletop turns blow, and your hands get stained blue. Without a tablet/pill form, I can't be bothered w/ this stuff.

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby J11 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:13 pm

There is so much to celebrate!

Taurx has recently clarified why the low dose of LMTX was effective. This was a great puzzle when the results were first posted. for some reason the placebo group turned out to be a treatment group. The current clinical trial is using this placebo dose with the patients.

http://taurx.com/uploads/press%20releas ... 0final.pdf

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby J11 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:52 pm

I have noticed something exciting about the phase 3 trial of taurx with their tau drug: The trial becomes open label next year. To be clear, an open label trial is when the patient knows what medication they are receiving; so it is unblinded.

This phase 3 was reported fully enrolled in October of this year and will continue blinded and randomized until the last enrolled patient has been on study for 52 weeks.

What does this imply?
The trial could report next year!

clinical trials gov is calling the study completion date as December 2022.
Yet, all patients will be open label at the latest by October 2020.

When the trial is no longer blinded starting next October, there does not seem to be any particularly good reason to not then report
efficacy. It would be difficult to justify waiting another 2 years because the trial would no longer be randomized. The trial could continue to check for side effects etc., though anything related to efficacy after unblinding would be suspect. Therefore, they could/should report efficacy after all patients are open label.

Inexplicably, clinical trials gov is also reporting that the primary completion date is December 2021. This is very unclear to me. The listed primary outcomes on the website all occur within 1 year of enrollment. It is very clear why the primary completion date is listed 2 years after the completion of enrollment and not 1 year.

What is also quite striking is that taurx decided that they only needed 450 patients (allocated 1:1:1) for 12 months to establish definitive evidence. The clinical benefit of LMTX in AD that has been reported to date is simply massive: roughly a cure for AD. At the start of this thread, I noted that the original phase 2 trial almost stopped progression of AD in moderate patients.

However, if I were them, I still would have hedged; you really can never be too sure about what might happen during a clinical trial, especially in AD (as we are all too aware). Hopefully, the issues mentioned here can be clarified soon as moving the reporting of results for LMTX forward by 2 years would be of considerable importance to many of those on forum for a loved one or for their own
dementia management needs.

If it were me, I would have been more cautious. For instance, perhaps they could have treated the early patients for two years randomized and then went open label, later patients would continue randomized treatment only until the last patient had received 1 year of treatment and then everyone would continue under open label. This way the trial has the same duration, though now there is much more information about treatment efficacy.

There is a great deal to look forward to in the New Year as disease modifying treatments for AD approach/arrive?
Happy 2020 everyone!

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby aphorist » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:55 am

I am a believer in Methylene Blue. The mechanism of action makes tons of sense to me. My biggest problem with it is the mess it makes everywhere. If you showed me pharmaceutical grade pills in the proper dose that don't make a damn mess everywhere, I would probably take it. My whole kitchen is a blue stained mess after dealing with that liquid/powder.

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby Tincup » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:31 pm

PeterM wrote: If anyone can figure out how to dose 8 mg (2x 4 mg a day) of the Kordon product Tincup had tested it would be hugely appreciated.


Listening to Francisco Gonzalez-Lima's two part podcast on Stem Talk: https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode-106/, https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode-107/ got me thinking about this again. Methylene blue was a material part of the podcast. Gonzalez-Lima emphasized again that you want a hormetic dose. Overdoing it leads to bad outcomes.

I worked this out for my family member with glioblastoma, but they didn't want to try it. Here is what I came up with:

Dosage: 0.5-4 mg/Kg of body weight. If person weighs 185#'s, then this is 84 Kg. So 42 to 336 mg/day. Most likely on the low end of this or less.

The Kordon Methylene Blue (for fish) is 2.303% MB. As water weighs 1g/mL, this would mean approximately 23.03 mg/mL of MB. At the dosages we are talking about this would be 42/23 or 1.8 mL to 336/23 = 14.5 mL. For reference, 14.5 mL is about 0.5 fluid oz. You can ratio these values for a person of different weight. Starting at 1 or 2 mL might make sense.

See J11's thread on Methylene Blue
J11 wrote:Welcome to 2020 everyone!


As well as my post above where I uploaded test results on the Kordon brand. My chemist friend suggested that the test results met with drinking water standards, so taking 1-2 mL is not a big deal.

J11 wrote:tincup, ask your chemist friend about reducing MB.
I've never done this, but understand this is a common experiment in undergrad classes. From listening to Gonzalez-Lima, I'm not sure it is necessary as the MB seems to cycle between forms on its own.

As aphosist notes, it does stain. If you play with this, be very careful and where if you spill it, it won't make a difference. I've been fortunate with the liquid and not made a mess, being very careful.
aphorist wrote:I am a believer in Methylene Blue. The mechanism of action makes tons of sense to me. My biggest problem with it is the mess it makes everywhere. If you showed me pharmaceutical grade pills in the proper dose that don't make a damn mess everywhere, I would probably take it. My whole kitchen is a blue stained mess after dealing with that liquid/powder.


Gonzalez-Lima notes he has a compounding pharmacy that will make pills. If you could get a doc to prescribe it through such a pharmacy, this would be a non-messy route.
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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby aphorist » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:24 am

Pharmaceutical grade. If anyone wants:

https://mitolab.com/product/mb-pure-met ... 0ml-100ml/

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby Tincup » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:39 pm

aphorist wrote:Pharmaceutical grade. If anyone wants:

https://mitolab.com/product/mb-pure-met ... 0ml-100ml/


Thanks! I put my KB liquid in a couple of veggie caps and took it without mess. Yesterday just put a mL in my mouth from a dropper, my wife asked me when my lips would get back to normal color. My lips were a minor part of the color - my tongue was deep blue, but looks fine today. Have a dental cleaning next week. Am thinking of putting some on my tongue before I go in, for effect :lol:

{edit} Out of curiosity, I compared the mitolab product with the Kordon Methylene Blue and the Kordon is actually "cleaner" according to my look at the data I collected ( here ), not that the mitolab is bad.
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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby J11 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:33 pm

Tincup, thank you reactivating this thread.


For reference here is another MB thread that went through some number crunching with the clinical trials.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6865&p=73361&hilit=methylen+blue#p73361

Hmm, there is also
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2481&p=47025&hilit=methylene+blue#p47025

and
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1184&hilit=methylene+blue

Yes, the internet keeps a fairly good record of what was said and when.

It continues to disturb me that MB has yet to reach the tens of millions of
dementia patients around the world who desperately need a disease
modifying treatment. Aquarian MB is likely a non-starter for most confronting
Alzheimer's.

MB has drifted forward for over 10 years now; considering the escalating
dementia crisis it is difficult to imagine that such minimal leadership has been
shown in accelerating this medicine for those in need.

I think it would be worthwhile to investigate the leuco form of MB that is being
used in the current phase 3 trial more closely. The phase 2 trial with unreduced MB
treated with ~150 mg per day MB, yet the current trial is using ~8 mg leuco MB.
Leuco would appear much more powerful. apparently all that is required is adding
vitamin C. Side benefit is that it can remove the blue staining that is difficult to
keep out of sinks etc.

I will be interested to see what formulations might emerge that could amplify MB.
mito-MB? I seem to recall that a nanoformulation of some other nutriceutical
was mentioned on forum and there were very large enhancements.

How can it be ethically acceptable not to have already approved
this medication at the very least on a conditional basis?
The ongoing phase 3 trial is transferring to open label so it is even
more unclear why wider access has not already been allowed.
Startlingly, only the US and Poland currently have active recruitment
for this trial which is 2 years into enrollment.

The phase 3 trials had over one thousand patients many of whom
then carried on to the extension trial. I carefully crunched through
the MB numbers and I saw a truly massive treatment effect. This
treatment effect should be clearly obvious in the existing datasets.

Perhaps the dementia community should join in the current protests
and advocate for the human rights of their loved ones and others
afflicted with dementing illness. Endless and unnecessary in delay
in marketing anti-dementing medications is not consistent with
international human right law.

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Re: Methylene Blue AD Cure Celebration Thread!

Postby Tincup » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 pm

As a warning to those who have hypertension, methylene blue has been used to treat hypotension. It is an inhibitor of nitric oxide synthase and guanylate cyclase. It has been found to improve the hypotension associated with various clinical states. Likely in larger doses than those hormetic ones suggested for our purposes. See here.
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