Mold remediation experiences

[slacker]

Any one out there with experience with mold remediation? I appear to have CIRS, definitely have HLA DR/DQ of multi susceptibility to biotoxins, ERMI/HERTSMI-2 results indicating unhealthy levels of mold, and mold has been found in my home's basement and crawlspace.

I'm in minor (OK, moderate) freak out about not being able to find a local remediation company that follows the Shoemaker protocol for removing mold. I've had 2 companies come in; one was more interactive and patient with my questions, and had read the mold inspection report before arriving. Both focused on spore count versus fragments or mycotoxins. Both will use plastic sheeting and positive pressure to isolate the area, and HEPA air scrubbers in the area during remediation. Neither was familiar with ERMI/HERTSMI-2. Neither addressed clean up of particulates elsewhere in the house, cleaning walls, ceilings, furniture, etc. I am waiting for quotes to come in, but will probably go with the one who listened and seemed more interested. The more interactive company estimated a week and a half process. My concern is that their approach will spread mold fragments and mycotoxins through out the house, making me worse rather than better.

Any feedback or words of encouragement?

[david lerner]

Hi,
I'm a Bredesen trained clinician (I need to post my info on the clinician list), and have been working on treating a mycotoxin infection in myself for the past couple years, and making good progress. I think your concerns are warranted. I would trust any of the approved inspectors on the real time labs web site: https://www.realtimelab.com/business-di ... l_listings
I also trust a very sharp mold inspector on the east coast named May Dooley - http://createyourhealthyhome.com/

[slacker]

Thanks David;

I think the mold inspector I used did a decent job, not to mention that the realtimelab site does not have anyone listed in my state.

My concern is the remediation portion. May Dooley's testing and treatment protocols are quite different than those recommended by Shoemaker. May recommended avoiding antimicrobials in one section of her website, but recommended them in another, so for me it is hard to follow, or to know what the right thing is to do. There seem to be inconsistencies with everything I've read on treating structural wood vs other materials. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place.

[Julie G]

(((Slacker))) I've nothing of real value to add, but wanted to pass along words of encouragement. I'm so sorry that you're going through this, my friend.

FWIW, I think mold is extremely common in ALL homes. Even Dr. Bredesen just found that his home has a high HERTSMI-2 score. During our (almost finished) renovation, we were shocked to find it in 3 bathrooms (on drywall behind the tile) and behind the laundry room drywall which was vented poorly. I don't have the susceptibility genes so the contractors just cut out all dry wall with any visible signs. The two by fours were left and treated. I did have a mold inspector stop by and he approved of the procedures being used. (He was local and not a specialist by any means.) I still feel so grateful that we had all of the rooms down to the studs so we could SEE the mold and rip it all out. Now I'm uber-diligent about squee-geeing the shower stall completely dry when finished and running a high powered vent fan for at least 30 mins. When the renovation is complete, I'm going to test. Kinda terrified about what I'll find...

[TheBrain]

Any one out there with experience with mold remediation? I appear to have CIRS, definitely have HLA DR/DQ of multi susceptibility to biotoxins, ERMI/HERTSMI-2 results indicating unhealthy levels of mold, and mold has been found in my home's basement and crawlspace.

{{{Slacker}}} I'm so sorry that you are dealing with multi-susceptibility to biotoxins and mold in your home.

I'm at the beginning of my healing journey with CIRS and mold remediation, so I don't yet have personal experiences to offer. But I have come across a web site authored by a former Residential Building Contractor who got sick with mold illness. His site is http://biotoxinjourney.com. Perhaps you've already come across it? He has a tab on Remediation, with one of the options being Foundatons & Mold. I haven't yet read the information under this tab, but other articles I've read from him have been quite good.

My home has a crawl space, and I'll soon be doing ERMI testing.

[slacker]

FWIW, I think mold is extremely common in ALL homes. Even Dr. Bredesen just found that his home has a high HERTSMI-2 score. During our (almost finished) renovation, we were shocked to find it in 3 bathrooms (on drywall behind the tile) and behind the laundry room drywall which was vented poorly. I don't have the susceptibility genes so the contractors just cut out all dry wall with any visible signs. The two by fours were left and treated.

Do you remember how the wood was treated? (she asks after stating that she is going to ignore this for the next few days... )

[slacker]

{{{Slacker}}} I'm so sorry that you are dealing with multi-susceptibility to biotoxins and mold in your home.

I'm at the beginning of my healing journey with CIRS and mold remediation, so I don't yet have personal experiences to offer. But I have come across a web site authored by a former Residential Building Contractor who got sick with mold illness. His site is http://biotoxinjourney.com. Perhaps you've already come across it? He has a tab on Remediation, with one of the options being Foundatons & Mold. I haven't yet read the information under this tab, but other articles I've read from him have been quite good.

My home has a crawl space, and I'll soon be doing ERMI testing.

Thanks for your kind words, TheBrain. The dilemma for me is that the opinion of one expert contradicts the recommended protocol of another expert. Sort of what we have to navigate with other topics in this crazy journey we are all on. I plan to breath deep, and put this aside for a few days. (Famous last words)

[david lerner]

Joe Spurgeon is another industrial hygienist who I trust lots. His website is http://expertonmold.com/, and he's quite accessible via email. Might be worth getting his opinion in the mix.

Also, John Banta is excellent and does telephone consulting. Here's an article he wrote on Neil Nathan's website. Neil is one of only a few clinicians who are trained by both Shoemaker and Brewer, and I consider him to be one of the best mycotoxin clinicians in the country: http://www.neilnathanmd.com/how-to-clea ... banta-cih/

Best,
David

[TheBrain]

{{{Slacker}}} I'm so sorry that you are dealing with multi-susceptibility to biotoxins and mold in your home.

I'm at the beginning of my healing journey with CIRS and mold remediation, so I don't yet have personal experiences to offer. But I have come across a web site authored by a former Residential Building Contractor who got sick with mold illness. His site is http://biotoxinjourney.com. Perhaps you've already come across it? He has a tab on Remediation, with one of the options being Foundatons & Mold. I haven't yet read the information under this tab, but other articles I've read from him have been quite good.

My home has a crawl space, and I'll soon be doing ERMI testing.

Thanks for your kind words, TheBrain. The dilemma for me is that the opinion of one expert contradicts the recommended protocol of another expert. Sort of what we have to navigate with other topics in this crazy journey we are all on. I plan to breath deep, and put this aside for a few days. (Famous last words)

Here it is Christmas Day, and I’m continuing to focus on CIRS. But it’s just me and my husband and our German Shepherd, so no major plans for the day. Hopefully, you are putting all this stuff aside and giving yourself a break.

I understand your dilemma. And I helped by adding another opinionated expert to your list (who is, BTW, a member of the SurvivingMold.com community). I recall you took the Mold Illness Made Simple course, offered by a Shoemaker-certified doctor. I gather that the course didn’t delve deeply into the details of remediation.

Are you familiar with the document, Indoor Environmental Professional Panel of Surviving Mold Consensus Statement: Medically Sound Investigation and Remediation of Water-Damaged Buildings in Cases of CIRS-WDB, available at:

https://www.survivingmold.com/docs/CONS ... _13_16.pdf

I’ve only skimmed parts of it, hoping I won’t actually need to take a deep dive into mold remediation. So I can’t speak to its usefulness at this point.

[TheBrain]

Joe Spurgeon is another industrial hygienist who I trust lots. His website is http://expertonmold.com/, and he's quite accessible via email. Might be worth getting his opinion in the mix.

Also, John Banta is excellent and does telephone consulting. Here's an article he wrote on Neil Nathan's website. Neil is one of only a few clinicians who are trained by both Shoemaker and Brewer, and I consider him to be one of the best mycotoxin clinicians in the country: http://www.neilnathanmd.com/how-to-clea ... banta-cih/

David, thank you providing additional resources for us to explore. I’ve started reading one of Joe Spurgeon’s articles, Comments on the Exposure of Occupants to Mycotoxins in the Indoor Environment (http://expertonmold.com/Articles/Surfac ... 072516.pdf).

I find the following of particular interest:

Inhalation of mycotoxins has been shown to be a significant issue in industrial settings (farm workers, swine and cowsheds, grain processing plants, wineries, etc.) [Breraa, Skaug]. Mycotoxins have also been proposed as the cause of adverse health effects from the inhalation of airborne mold in residential, school, and office environments. However, evidence has been inadequate to establish a causal relationship between the inhalation of indoor mold and health effects related to mycotoxin exposure [Kelman]. Therefore, except in industrial settings, inhalation of mycotoxins is not expected to be an important route of exposure.

Occupant exposures typically result from the ingestion of food items such as grains, meats, dairy products, nuts, fruits, etc. [Koppen, Lopez, Ostry]. Mycotoxins are naturally occurring contaminants in the food chain, with the following five types of mycotoxins especially important in human health: aflatoxins, ochratoxin A, fumonisins, trichothecenes, and zearalenone [Pitta]. The most important mycotoxins in the food chain are: (1) the aflatoxins produced by Aspergillus species, (2) ochratoxin A and patulin produced by Aspergillus and Penicillium species, and (3) mycotoxins from the genus Fusarium [Krska]. Some of the most susceptible foodstuffs to aflatoxins and ochratoxin A are cocoa, coffee and spices [Breraa]. It is also interesting to note that some dietary supplements, sometimes prescribed to treat mycotoxicosis, have also been confirmed as a potential source of mycotoxin exposure [Vallabhaneni].

This text suggests to me that we should be more concerned about what we eat rather than the presence of mycotoxins in our home environment. Of course, we wouldn’t want our homes to fall apart due to mold damage.

I have many food sensitivities. Interestingly, many of them are mentioned above: grains, beef (not all meat), dairy, several types of nuts, cocoa, coffee, and cayenne pepper (which is the only spice I’m aware of being sensitive to).

Per my mycotoxins test results through Great Plains Laboratories, I have very high levels of ochratoxin A and one type of trichothecene (which are two of the five mycotoxins listed above).