Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby TheresaB » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:01 am

kc425 wrote:I find it odd that I need/should limit my veggies, but the meter will tell me! Do you have good substitutions for coconut milk by the way? I often use it to make curries or culture it for yogurt, but I'd like to switch to some sort of nut to replace the sat fats with mono and polys. Also I'd love to see what you eat everyday if you wouldn't mind sharing a sample day?


I eat lots of veggies, mostly low net carb with low lectin content. In addition to following Dr Gundry's protocol, I also try to follow Dr Terry Wahls protocol of 3 cups of 3 different types of greens, 3 cups of three different colored veggies and 3 cups of three different sulfurs (see photos). I don’t know that I make it to 9 total cups every day, but I do have a big salad covered with a dressing of extra virgin olive oil and real, syrup like, organic, balsamic vineger, plus a steamed vegetable for dinner. Often there are also veggies as part of the main dish (onions, garlic, celeriac, pressure cooked tomatoes, etc.). I also eat resistant starches also, not many, but do have jicama sticks to dip in guacamole as the appetizer to dinner every night. I rarely eat fruit, even in season, but supplement with polyphenols from fruit that comes without the fructose. I do drink a little red wine for the resveratrol, oh and because I like it. :D

So how I eat is lots of good fats in the form of olive oil, avocado, and nuts. My protein is “adequate” not too much or too little, derived from vegetable sources (no soy products, except for grain free tempeh which is okay because it’s fermented), or from animal sources keeping the animal sourced protein at about 4 times a week - wild caught shellfish, wild caught white fish or Omega-3 eggs (pastured eggs are good too, but hard to find). My carbs are probably higher than most who follow ketogenic diets, but they’re mostly low net carbs and everyone's carb level is different.

After fasting approx. 15-16 hours, I typically break my fast with nuts, not seeds or legumes like peanuts or cashews, but macadamia nuts, pistachios, pecans, moderated amounts of walnuts and almonds without the skin, plus one Brazil nut a day for the selenium. I also treat myself to a little (just under an ounce) of very dark chocolate.

I can’t recommend anything for coconut milk substitution.

I’m not in deep ketosis, I’ve not experienced cognitive decline, so that’s not my goal. My desire is to maintain metabolic flexibility – the ability of the body to easily switch from to burn glucose or ketones. I seem to run mild ketosis pretty much all the time, but can easily ramp up my ketones through fasting. I’ve been hearing more and more about cyclic ketosis of late, i.e. to maintain ketosis most of the time but then have a “carb night” periodically.
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Lucy5 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:25 am

Theresa, you may have posted this along the way, but do you aim for a specific caloric range daily/weekly? Just wondering ..

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby TheresaB » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:13 pm

Lucy5 wrote:Theresa, you may have posted this along the way, but do you aim for a specific caloric range daily/weekly? Just wondering ..


Lucy, no I’ve not addressed this before. A while back I used chronometer https://cronometer.com/ to break down my macronutrient (fats, protein, carbs) percentage. It also told me calories and other nutrient breakdown. But I’ve been doing this for a long enough period of time and have been weight stable for quite a while that I pretty much got things down, so I don’t need to track what I'm eating. I keep an eye on the type of food I’m eating and test my ketones and blood glucose about once a week just to make sure I'm not trending in a wrong direction.

I have also drifted away from the traditional calories in/calories out way of thinking (excess calories equals fat gain) to more the endocrine way of thinking (excess insulin equals fat gain). Don’t get me wrong, calories do matter, but source/quality of calories also matters a great deal.
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Lucy5 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:40 pm

Theresa wrote: I have also drifted away from the traditional calories in/calories out way of thinking (excess calories equals fat gain) to more the endocrine way of thinking (excess insulin equals fat gain). Don’t get me wrong, calories do matter, but source/quality of calories also matters a great deal.
Couldn't agree more, Theresa. It's that I remain puzzled as to how many here seem to be able to remain weight stable on what I'm guessing is a fairly low/moderate calorie intake. It's a struggle for me to maintain a decent BMI while eating the way I need to eat. We're all differently metabolically, and have to adapt, I know. But I continue to keep an eye out for what is/isn't working for others.

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Paulski » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:06 pm

Have you tried hemp milk or flax milk? These are pretty easy to make in a Vitamix if you don't want to buy them.

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Jan » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:06 pm

Hello, Paulski ... thank you for the suggestion of hemp and flax milk. I've tried both, I believe, but have not made them myself. I'm a fan of any dairy substitute, since I figured out how much better I feel without dairy. If you have a personal recipe for making either, we'd love to have you add it to the Recipe Wiki site member JML is compiling here ... viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3874&hilit=recipes .

As you're new, let me point you toward our site Primer . It was written by physician member Stavia, and has tremendous information and explanations. Our site search engine is the three stacked squares at the top of each page, to the right of your name. And when you click there, you can also find links of several Wikis we're developing.

As you probably know, we're a welcoming and supportive community and look forward to your participation. If you'd like to tell us a little about yourself, we have a special place for that in Our Stories, here: viewforum.php?f=2
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby McGido » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:03 pm

Tincup wrote:
Can provide more info on these topics if interested.



    1. Was curious your thoughts on bulletproof coffee and if it's at all acceptable a few times a week? I've intermittent fasted for about 4 years now, typically eating between 3pm-10pm, but it's not odd for me to have only one meal a day and only eat between 6pm-9pm. I used to do bulletproof coffee but recently cut it out since scouring this forum and seeing the problems saturated fat could cause with 4/4.

    2. Do you use a sauna at all? I've read a lot of positive things with regular use 4-7x per week, I haven't tried yet but something I think I can easily work into my schedule regularly.

    3. I take cold showers daily, but typically only am in there maybe 5-10 minutes. Often starting with cold water and working my way up to the coldest I can put it, am I not getting much benefit unless I stay in there longer?

    4. Do you use Apple Cider Vinegar at all? I typically break my fasts with 2-3 tbsps of ACV, some turmeric, pepper, pink salt, a full squeezed lime and some water. Not sure if anyone else has some type of protocol around breaking their fast but curious your thoughts on this method.

    5. I've decided I'm going to try a 3 day fast (if i can make it that long) in a couple weeks, any tips for someone trying out their first extended fast? I typically react quite well to depravation, intermittent fasting I just started doing because I liked it, without even knowing it could have some benefits given my apoe4 gene expression. Also, when you fast, are you just having water? I usually cheat with tea, coffee while I intermittent fast.


My dad just recently passed from complications with Alzheimers at 77. I'm 31 and my doc doesn't offer me much guidance and basically says to make sure I stay exercising, and I shouldn't worry too much at my age. Honestly, I'm looking to take a more proactive approach. I just want to build the necessary habits now while I'm in peak condition so I'm not trying to install some of these things when I'm older, more stuck in my ways and more damage has already been done. This forum has been a godsend, I know there isn't a ton of concrete scientific evidence on some topics but this is by far one of the best resources I've found since really starting to dig into lifestyle prevention measures against AD. I really appreciate your and everyone elses involvement and input!

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Stavia » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:22 pm

My thoughts McGido
1. Dunno, but if you can manage without it, maybe it's better do let it go until there is more evidence?
2. We have a hot tub and I love soaking in it. Tincup has built a sauna at home.
3. Not sure
4. Sounds harmless at worst
5. Please make sure to take supplemental salt (a teaspoon?), potassium (?maybe 500mg a day) and magnesium (?400mg). You can Google recommended amounts and see what works best for you. I think tea or coffee is fine. Longo's FMD has biochemical and cellular changes even on 300 to 500 cals a day so a bit of tea or coffee shouldn't make a huge difference.

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Korie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:39 pm

Paulski wrote:Have you tried hemp milk or flax milk? These are pretty easy to make in a Vitamix if you don't want to buy them.

I love my vitamix! It's been amazing to create milks, soups, and other creamy food choices. Welcome Paulski :) I hope you find that our group here is a supportive and informative one. As Jan has provided, the Primer is a really amazing place to start if you need any information.
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Tincup » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:01 pm

McGido wrote:
Tincup wrote:
Can provide more info on these topics if interested.


1. Was curious your thoughts on bulletproof coffee and if it's at all acceptable a few times a week? I've intermittent fasted for about 4 years now, typically eating between 3pm-10pm, but it's not odd for me to have only one meal a day and only eat between 6pm-9pm. I used to do bulletproof coffee but recently cut it out since scouring this forum and seeing the problems saturated fat could cause with 4/4.


The ideal of bulletproof coffee is fine, IMO. The question is what fat to use. Though not settled, sat fat from dairy or coconut/MCT may not be ideal for E4's.

McGido wrote:2. Do you use a sauna at all? I've read a lot of positive things with regular use 4-7x per week, I haven't tried yet but something I think I can easily work into my schedule regularly.

After looking at the Finnish data, I converted a 2.5'x4' shower into a heat lamp sauna. I insulated the walls/ceiling with Refletix insulation (using duct tape to hold it together. There are 4-250 watt lamps in a diamond pattern. I usually let the lamps heat the sauna up to around 100 deg F. Then I spend 12 minutes on the front side, and 6 minutes each on the other sides, including another go at the front. I sweat heavily and have a higher oral temp increase from this than from the hot air sauna at the rec center. I follow this with a 20 minute soak with 49 deg F. water.

Sauna Plans, wiring diagram (except I have 4 lamps). Key is wire in parallel, not series.
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McGido wrote:3. I take cold showers daily, but typically only am in there maybe 5-10 minutes. Often starting with cold water and working my way up to the coldest I can put it, am I not getting much benefit unless I stay in there longer?


Don't know what the answer is. You can look at Wim Hof's site, Jack Kruse's posts on Cold Thermogenisis as well as others. Jack would tell you that part of the benefit is from causing your body to dump deuterium (typically at 150 ppm, but getting it below 130 ppm in the body appears healthy), which is a whole other topic.

McGido wrote:4. Do you use Apple Cider Vinegar at all? I typically break my fasts with 2-3 tbsps of ACV, some turmeric, pepper, pink salt, a full squeezed lime and some water. Not sure if anyone else has some type of protocol around breaking their fast but curious your thoughts on this method.


So I make magnesium acetate by reacting magnesium hydroxide as milk of magnesia with ACV in a 2:7 ratio, more here. Mag acetate will convert to mag bicarb in the body. The bicarb may be the benefit the the acetate, as with the ACV, too.

McGido wrote:5. I've decided I'm going to try a 3 day fast (if i can make it that long) in a couple weeks, any tips for someone trying out their first extended fast? I typically react quite well to depravation, intermittent fasting I just started doing because I liked it, without even knowing it could have some benefits given my apoe4 gene expression. Also, when you fast, are you just having water? I usually cheat with tea, coffee while I intermittent fast.


I normally just use water, though my wife uses coffee in the morning. She fasts 7 days once or twice a year and usually likes to have bone broth, but that is less of an issue now than when she first started. Fasting is like anything else, practice is helpful.

McGido wrote:My dad just recently passed from complications with Alzheimers at 77. I'm 31 and my doc doesn't offer me much guidance and basically says to make sure I stay exercising, and I shouldn't worry too much at my age. Honestly, I'm looking to take a more proactive approach. I just want to build the necessary habits now while I'm in peak condition so I'm not trying to install some of these things when I'm older, more stuck in my ways and more damage has already been done. This forum has been a godsend, I know there isn't a ton of concrete scientific evidence on some topics but this is by far one of the best resources I've found since really starting to dig into lifestyle prevention measures against AD. I really appreciate your and everyone elses involvement and input!


As Stavia points out in her primer, keeping insulin resistance at bay is primary. Of course what you are doing is wonderful. In my post above, I've linked to what we are doing with Gundry etc.
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