Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby kc425 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:32 am

Hey Tin Cup...I meant to ask a while back. Is it possible to eat resistant starches like Gundry recommends, and stay in mild ketosis the following day without an extended fast (16 hours+)?
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Tincup » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:03 pm

kc425 wrote:Hey Tin Cup...I meant to ask a while back. Is it possible to eat resistant starches like Gundry recommends, and stay in mild ketosis the following day without an extended fast (16 hours+)?


As I fast 22 hours and my wife 16, it not something we have experience with. I also don't monitor ketones all the time. If I go out of ketosis, I come back in very easily. When I use urine strips to monitor, I'm almost never at 0. Now tested this morning, after an evening meal with a large amount of cabbage, plus my normal salad. My ketones were at 0.3 mmol/L on serum and 5 mg on urine. This is fairly light for me.

I really just do ketosis to keep insulin low and don't worry about swinging in and out.

As an aside, I just happened to see this as I don't read everything. If you quote me, it will send me an email so I'm much more likely to know you are asking me a question.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby jeff » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:10 pm

Hi,
Could someone give me a little help regarding sterols and lipids. True Health's rep wasn't very helpful.

My sterol markers are optimal, but Desmo is Hypo less than o.50 ????

Confusion cause lipids
optimal and apob 76 but hdl-p is 2717, smpartldl is 649( int. Risk) and ldl p 1072. just a little clarification.I know it's complex. thanks, jeff

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Fiver » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:03 pm

Hi everyone, just wondering what would you consider low saturated fat?

Here is a snapshot of my diet. For the last 30 days cronometer.com says I've been 60% fat, 15% carbs (~20-40 g per day), 23% protein, 16 hour overnight fasts.

I get 4-6 cups of non-starchy veggies per day. But my omega 3 - omega 6 ratio is 1:6, which is not as good as I had hoped. My saturated fat has been an average of 31 g per day, Main sources have been dark chocolate, olive oil, avacados, meat, and macadamia nuts. This seems high. On days I eat fish, everything is how I want to it to be. But I can't do that everyday. The macadamia nuts are an occasional treat but I guess I could eliminate those.

I'd LIKE to be on a "low saturated fat ketogenic diet" but, honestly, I run out of low-sat-fat things to eat. Found out I have a food allergy which eliminates grains too. And I've lost about as much weight as I should.

Would be grateful for suggestion for something to read about new, creative food options that are reCODE, MIND, etc. friendly.

....still waiting on someone to invent those pure omega-3 pretzels sticks.
Concerned, but hopeful. Introverted, but will talk about science.

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby slacker » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:37 am

jeff wrote:Hi,
Could someone give me a little help regarding sterols and lipids. True Health's rep wasn't very helpful.

My sterol markers are optimal, but Desmo is Hypo less than o.50 ????

Confusion cause lipids
optimal and apob 76 but hdl-p is 2717, smpartldl is 649( int. Risk) and ldl p 1072. just a little clarification.I know it's complex. thanks, jeff


Jeff;
I think your post has gotten lost in this thread. Your question may be more visible if you start a new thread under "Our Stories". It would be helpful to post all of your results, including standard lipids and sterol markers, with the lab's normal ranges.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby PBW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 pm

Welcome KC 425, I am a 4/4 also on low saturated fat Keto diet. I have been working on many different aspects for a long time through readings of Dr. Schwarzbein, Dr Mercola, Dr Luftig, Dr. Noakes, Dr. Kressor, et al. Last summer I consumed Dr Bredesen's and Dr. Gundry's new books and began putting it all together . The changes are longer fasts from 12hrs the previous 5 years to 16 hrs daily, lower carbs< 30( gave up organic fruit juices, honey , maple syrup and other sugars over the last decade and dropped all grains in any form) reduced dairy < 20 g of sat. fat daily, eliminated all coconut sat fats( I had been going back and forth watching LDL's soar when I used coconut oil and lower when I dropped it), maintaining mild ketosis daily, adding BNDF to daily exercise except on days when I do sprints( in addition to Yoga daily, alternately swimming, biking, or Hiking/jogging daily, sleeping an hour more daily(8 hrs) and adding Brain fitness back in 30 minutes daily. I am working on getting blood tests done and finding a doctor trained in RECODE. My family Practitioner appt is scheduled the beginning of March and she has agreed to do all the tests she can validate through my history which are covered under medicare. I will have to do the others through local labs or Life Extension. Theresa B, Stavia, Julie, Tincup, Brian and many others on this site have been tremendously helpful as I stumble my way along this process.
Problems along the way: Holidays were not to difficult and stayed in mild ketosis even with occasional wine and spirits. I played around with Dr Gundry's suggestion of Just Like Sugar and gluten free flours for yummy holiday treats which turned out nicely. Traveling is very difficult with less input on nutrition, when in Rome and all that! I use a breathalyzer for Ketones and lost it. It seems I still need that daily support . When I received a new one it took me 5 days to get back to mild ketosis. Now I have a cold virus and am wondering if I should take a Tylenol for the headache or gut it out. Both Gundry and Bredesen mention NSAID's as being a bad idea. Little things like that keep popping up. This forum is tremendously helpful for encouragement, new ideas, answering questions, and education. Check out Theresa B new entry...very informative. I am sure being a nutritionist you will have a great deal to add. Glad you found our forum!

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Mechelle » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:04 pm

I'm ApoE4. I've been doing keto for 6 years--very high sat fat. All of my health markers have dramatically improved following this lifestyle. I didn't know I was supposed to be low in saturated fats... I have never heard any keto doctor recommend avoiding sat fats--nor have I seen any clinical studies that suggest Sat Fat is dangerous. Why are some ApoE4 folk reducing sat fat on keto? What do I not understand? Thanks for your help!

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Searcher » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:15 pm

Mechelle,

It's likely that if you replace saturated fat with unsaturated (eg., extra virgin olive oil, avocados, nuts, oily small fish), your HbA1c and fasting insulin will drop to your desired levels. That's because saturated fats enter your skeletal muscle cells and tend to interfere with the removal of glucose from your blood. That's one way to develop insulin resistance. Try it and see what happens.

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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby Tincup » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 pm

Mechelle wrote:I'm ApoE4. I've been doing keto for 6 years--very high sat fat. All of my health markers have dramatically improved following this lifestyle. I didn't know I was supposed to be low in saturated fats... I have never heard any keto doctor recommend avoiding sat fats--nor have I seen any clinical studies that suggest Sat Fat is dangerous. Why are some ApoE4 folk reducing sat fat on keto? What do I not understand? Thanks for your help!


Mechelle,

Dr. Gundry has noted (from clinical results & he has tested all for E4 status for ~15 years) that E4's tend to spike sdLDL & oxLDL with more sat fat. He is not the only one talking about this. Not that this will apply to all. I've had discussions about this with Irish (and E3/4) blogger Ivor Cummins. He is skeptical that this will override glucose/insulin. I can't say I disagree with him. One study Julie posted in Dec 2014 showed that E4's with Met Syn had a ~2.5x risk of heart disease, those without Met Syn had a ~0.2x risk.

One way to figure this out is to test for oxLDL, rather than speculate. Also a coronary calcium score =0 would also suggest you have no issues.

As a Gundry patient, we test oxLDL & it is not a big deal to eat a relatively low sat fat keto (75% fat calorie) diet to get our oxLDL in the very low range (most recent to right in bottom chart).
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Re: Anyone else doing a low saturated fat Ketogenic diet?

Postby slacker » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:26 am

Mechelle,

You can tell just from the 2 responses from Searcher and Tincup to your query that there is no consensus on the saturated fat question. Ultimately, we have to take responsibility to look at the studies, check our own response to dietary changes (how we feel, results of specialty lipid tests), and make changes that work for us. One size does not fit all. Life is uncertain.
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