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Another negative lipid profile trend

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
JimBG
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Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby JimBG » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:39 pm

Well I'm going to join the chorus on this. I am also somewhat discouraged over the negative trends in my lipid profile. 1/22/17 is baseline. Mid July 2017 I started to cut my calories to lose weight. October 1st 2017 I began intermittent fasting skipping breakfast and eating 2 meals/day. Mid January 2018 I cut my saturated fat significantly and correspondingly greatly increased intake of avocados, EVOO and salmon. Am not super strict on my diet but have eliminated all sugars and refined carbs for quite some time. Have also been in mild ketosis (0.5 - 1.0) for at least a month. Am using Cholestech LDS analyzer for below test results. Have been working out 3X/week the entire period.

---------------1/22/17 ------11/2/17--------12/24/17-------3/7/18

Weight----------171---------- 162-------------158-------------154
B fat %-----------19-----------17--------------16--------------15
TC------------- 230---------258-------------270------------ 264
HDL-------------49----------52--------------48-------------- 39
TRG ------------102----------120-------------118--------------97
LDL-------------161----------182-------------199------------ 205
TC/HDL --------4.7---------- 5.0-------------5.6-------------6.7
GLU------------102---------- 96-------------- 97------------- 84

After going up from baseline my TC hasn't budged. HDL has gone down since sat fat reduction. TRG up then down to baseline. LDL keeps going up (BAD!). Fasting GLU is down (GOOD).

I plan to get NMR test done next month to check particle number and size.

Any thoughts/observations on these trends? Seems in line with what others are experiencing. I am particularly concerned about the increase in LDL and decrease in HDL. I know Stavia has said that blood sugar trumps lipids. But even so the lipid trend is concerning.
Last edited by JimBG on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shacherry
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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby shacherry » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:58 pm

Hey JimBG,

I'm new here so I don't know the nuts and bolts of this diet. I did wonder however if egg yokes and butter and things are eaten a lot if my LDL would go back up. After eliminating them from my diet my LDL took a nose dive below 70 like what my doctor wanted. Like I said I don't know squat. I'm rooting for you!
ApoE 3/4

Orangeblossom
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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby Orangeblossom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:43 am

It seems to be something I have noticed with lower HDL and eliminating sat fats. Many on here would not agree but I find personally including some natural foods like grass fed butter, full fat greek yoghurt, eggs and cheese helps with my HDL (last test 108, LDL 70) but doesn't seem to raise the LDL. It is also a good source of calcium and Vit K2 (cheese). I also include some coconut oil / milk and 85% dark chocolate. I enjoy eating these foods and am trying to think of my bones, too! I eat a mediterranean style diet and also include grains and legumes, plenty of fruit and veg. using this Blood Sugar Diet as a resource https://thebloodsugardiet.com/the-low-carb-plan/
here is the link about full fat dairy for info https://thebloodsugardiet.com/is-it-ok- ... nd-butter/ obviously this isn't specific to APOE4, but that said I have yet to see a study showing sat fats from healthy natural sources in a low carb diet are bad for E4s, the studies all seem to be based on the SAD or use things like 'spreads' to measure them :? So my approach is to have but not in vast amounts.

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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby circular » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:58 am

That makes me wonder, Orangeblossom, what are the main cited references believed to show that saturated fat in e4s is bad? It would be really interesting to see whether your approach will help others having this issue. I think saturated fat is partly concerned with stiffening up cell walls, which is bad, but I wonder if having plenty of DHA on board allows the membranes to preferentially take it up so this doesn’t happen? Most people on high saturated fat diets are also low in omega 3s.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby Orangeblossom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:13 am

The one often sited is a Finnish study which looks at spreads. there are more other references about sat fats in the Wike of this site (scroll down) as well https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Cholesterol ... urated_fat

I feel it is all quite complex and can only speak for what worked for me, have no idea about things like my CRP levels etc, though. So feel a but unsure whether to 'recommend' it or not. :shock:

For me, it was simply that I felt a bit miserable cutting it all out. The one thing I feel much better for is not having sugar ups and downs, that is the one thing which really seems to help me, feel better anyway. I mix fats as well, have plenty of nuts, EVOO, avocados etc as well. As you mentioned, I also read that having Omega 3s in the mix can be helpful. I have that as well. (couple of spoonfuls a day)

circular
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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby circular » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:20 am

It sounds very healthy Orangeblossom, especially when your biomarkers line up well. We're all different which is part of what makes all this so interesting. In the end, if we were to have access to every relevant biomarker (if we even knew what they all are), we'd probably all be off in one thing or another. Finding the best balance possible is probably an art but not strictly speaking a science. My husband occasionally has to remind me, when I'm worried about some saturated fat, how low my intake already is. Even if I upped my saturated fat quite a bit, it would still be lower than in the SAD. It could be that in response to some concept that we need to avoid something that we might too easily take that too far.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby Orangeblossom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:26 am

I guess if people wanted to try making changes, they could just check out in their tests what was happening. And then go from there. I think it's really important to eat things you enjoy, as well. No point being miserable and stressing yourself out too much. It's not just about diet either, exercise can raise HDL, and possibly things like supplements a bit.

The general demonising of saturated fats over the years has a lot to answer for. A good book is called the Big Fat Surprise which is very useful on sat fats and their history etc. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Big-Fat-Surpri ... QPJTYJA655 Her TED Talk here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CHGiid6N9Q

I know some of the GPs over here in the Uk are using diets like the Blood Sugar Diet for diabetes prevention, so doctors are using it with success for that, and diabetes can be linked to AD...

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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby Fiver » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:28 am

Thanks for mentioning this, JimBG, and posing the question! My results were very similar, over a similar period of time. I evaluated my test results with several doctors, including a cardiologist and a functional medicine doctor, and I've been reading the studies. The functional medicine doctor didn't care much about the lipid profile at all. My cardiologist noticed right away. My attempts to lower saturated fats have been only partly successful, so I don't think that for me I'll be able to solve the problem that way. An easy fix is to take a statin - that alone would probably counteract the tendency of the ketoflex diet to mess up the lipid profile. My cardiologist said he could drive my numbers to zero, if that was necessary, no matter the diet.....and had good data to back that up....though obviously that's not the goal. (I'll leave the statin debate for the statin debate threads - I know it's not a direction everyone wants to go). But I have been researching the Med. Diet more and unlike the ketoflex-type diets there is a ton of really encouraging data there, including data showing reduction in AD. The data on the Med. Diet is, to my eye, really good. The reCODE protocol - the original in the Aging papers - provides the "choice of anti-inflammatory diets", and mentions the Med. Diet specifically. So lately, I'm thinking that it might be better, for me at this point, to go that way. Or at least to try. I've mentioned it before - I do think there must be differences in what is best for those without symptoms at mid-life and those with symptoms later on. In this case, if ketosis is supposed to provide an alternative fuel to insulin resistant brains I would guess that the benefits increase over time (and be less important earlier).

Just my current thinking.

Either way, I'm hoping that eliminating excess sugars and processed foods and eating loads of veggies is the real driver of good health.
Concerned, but hopeful. Introverted, but will talk about science.

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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby Orangeblossom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:23 am

I noticed in Bredesden's book he thought saturated fats are usually only a problem as part of a processed foods (SAD) diet which is something I see mentioned by others including Michael Mosely. Sometimes, on here I see intense debate between low fat / high fat but not much about having a compromise / mediterranean diet, despite that seeming to be the option proposed by many places when looking at AD (including Alzheimer's UK) as having the most evidence behind it, and for prevention of other diseases also.. In terms of ketosis and fasting, it is still possible to be moderate or low carb on a med style diet and do intermittent fasting...

" I'm hoping that eliminating excess sugars and processed foods and eating loads of veggies is the real driver of good health."

Yes, I think that is important, too.

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Re: Another negative lipid profile trend

Postby Julie G » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:29 am

The data on the Med. Diet is, to my eye, really good. The reCODE protocol - the original in the Aging papers - provides the "choice of anti-inflammatory diets", and mentions the Med. Diet specifically. So lately, I'm thinking that it might be better, for me at this point, to go that way. Or at least to try. I've mentioned it before - I do think there must be differences in what is best for those without symptoms at mid-life and those with symptoms later on..

Agree re. the Med Diet. In fact, KetoFlex 12/3 is sometimes described as a Mediterranean ketogenic lifestyle. Lifestyle vs. diet as a long fast, exercise & diet are all combined to create a mild level of ketosis. It's worth noting that there are many similarities between traditional Med Diet and Dr. Bredesen's plan, the exceptions being pasta & pizza ;).
In this case, if ketosis is supposed to provide an alternative fuel to insulin resistant brains I would guess that the benefits increase over time (and be less important earlier.)

Maybe, but we have a large body of work demonstrating a reduction in neuronal fuel per PET/FDG in our genotype (in a dose dependent fashion) as early as our 20s. The bioenergetics or mitochondrial hypothesis proposes that addressing that as early as possible upstream of symptoms could avoid the downstream cascade of pathology. We know that the Alzheimer's disease process takes at least a decade, likely longer, to form. Younger people (such as yourself) may be able to simply incorporate a long daily fast and exercise to get into mild ketosis to address the reduction in cerebral glucose utilization. Older folks may need to work harder and include a stricter low carb diet. Lucky for us, we can easily test BHB to see where we stand.

JimBG, thanks for sharing your numbers and journey. We learn so much from case studies like yours. I'm barely functioning... still dealing with the flu :shock:, so apologies if these are repeat questions. How old are you? Do you have a family or personal history of CAD? If you're age 45 or older, you may want to consider an EBT to check your calcium score to help guide your priorities. As you point out, advanced lipids would be another great test. You could also check your oxLDL to further hone in on your CAD risk. You've lost a lot of weight and body fat. How's your BMI? BP? I love the trend in your glucose numbers. I see a mixed bag with your results; lots of good stuff too. Keep up the great work and keep sharing. I suspect that you'll teach us all as you further work on tinkering your numbers.


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