How much olive oil is too much?

[Orangeblossom]

In that last study, that is interesting about the link with ibuprofen, as I posted something recently about it being helpful in preventing AD. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4787&p=54734&hilit=ibuprofen#p54734

I don't understand how it is possible to have all that olive oil every day, it tastes pretty unpleasant. I have a little bit with water and lemon douce which makes it taste slightly better but still find it pretty horrible. maybe it is a matter of taste, like marmite

[Verax]

Orangeblossom, I agree it is hard to drink so much olive oil. However, the answer may be that you don't have to drink it all, rather use it as main cooking oil. The Mediterranean diet specifies using EVOO as the "main cooking oil" as in stir fries, and in the food frequency lists specifies "sofrito" use regularly as part of the standard traditional Mediterranean or Latin diet. Sofrito is made from tomatoes with much onions and garlic and to me seems an excuse for dumping a lot of EVOO on food. It does add taste and flavor for sure and may encourage the right microbiota.

You are also right about the bitterness (similar to ibuprofen and diterpenes in coffee and hops in dark beer) as an important factor that needs further investigation. People vary in their sensitivity and liking for bitter or sweet just as cultures do and perhaps if we look we can find some genetic associations. But we should not try so much to identify isolated ingredients in food since many factors can have a synergistic effect. Because there is so much fraud in EVOO commerce, we have turned to chemical analysis of what are thought of as the important beneficial elements (replacing the simple cough test--more coughs, more phenols), yet there may be others overlooked. Finally, high octane EVOO is probably undrinkable for most and is regularly blended for acceptable taste and not graded for health effect.

[Orangeblossom]

Ok, I try and not cook too much with olive oil due to it not having high cooking point so thought that might be a problem. Or if I do I use a small amount, often use water for boiling in instead. It can be tricky. I prefer to eat olives and feta, mmm.

The sofrita sounds nice. I like humous made with olive oil (well it is OK, prefer rapeseed to be honest but have it sometimes cos of the olive oil).

I noticed in the genetics test it came up with preferring sweet and being sensitive to bitter so maybe why I don't like it too much.

[Julie G]

I appreciate your skepticism, Verax. Nutritional science is complicated by so many confounders. I agree that we don't have proof that EVOO in any quantity protects our brains or hearts, but we do have some decent hints. As an E4 homozygote dealing with reduced cerebral glucose utilization, I chose to generate some ketones to offset my neuronal fuel shortage and high polyphenol EVOO seems like a pretty safe and effective way of increasing my dietary fat intake. I've been using fairly generous amounts (>1/2 cup) for almost five years and am yielding excellent biomarkers, LDL-P 780, hbA1c- 4.7, CAC-zero, oxLDL- bottom quartile, iHeart pulse wave velocity testing- 15+ years lower than my biological age. There's a tremendous void in published nutrition research to effectively guide E4 carriers; hence many of us run N=1s to find what works. A heavily plant-based Mediterranean approach, with lots of EVOO, seems to be working for me now, but I'm constantly testing and tweaking to optimize. Are you using EVOO? What quantities & how does that correlate with your overall health pic?

[Verax]

.... There's a tremendous void in published nutrition research to effectively guide E4 carriers; hence many of us run N=1s to find what works. A heavily plant-based Mediterranean approach, with lots of EVOO, seems to be working for me now, but I'm constantly testing and tweaking to optimize. Are you using EVOO? What quantities & how does that correlate with your overall health pic?

I drone on and wake up to find I have been misunderstood. indeed, I have been using EVOO (and tree nuts) for years since the PREDIMED trial was published in New England Journal. One of my triplet daughters is Italian (she married an Italian banker and became a citizen) and obtains pure EVOO from the family olive trees and press so I don't have to buy from Dr Guidry. I use EVOO as my "main cooking oil" and put 1-2 tbsp on my abundant salads. I have been on a ketogenic diet for a couple of years as well.
I score on the highest tertile of the MIND diet, which is "significantly associated with each cognitive domain, particularly for episodic memory, semantic memory and perceptual speed." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4581900/

What I should have said is that the prescription to drink a cup of EVOO a day or even 50g (4 tbsp) is all wet. The Italians who enjoy a Mediterranean diet and lifestyle, at least the ones I have spoken with, would never consume that much directly, but rather in soffrito or as a cooking oil; EVOO is always blended and the most bitter considered not fit for sale. The journal letter I cited reports the real and bitter truth that although the isolated polyphenols do serve as anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatory chemicals, there is not enough in the common EVOO dose to achieve that effect.

I cautioned that you have to look at the whole picture. The Mediterranean diet comes in various flavors (red meat or not? cheese or not?) but EVOO is central. I guess that is because the southern European culture does not use butter or milk as much (oddly, there doesn't seem to be a big difference in lactose intolerance); consequently, saturated fat intake is replaced by monosaturated (in cooking not neat), and MUFA EVOO replaces oils like PUFA corn or canola oil (rapeseed grows in the north, olives in the south). The PREDIMED control did not control calories or macronutrients and participants did not lose weight. The MIND diet scores 1 for <4/wk red meat meals, but doesn't score EVOO for anything other than "primary oil" or not.

Your suggestion for an experiment is timely. I haven't seen any RCT results with ApoE4s in ketosis, with no metabolic syndrome, who replace saturated fat intake (Paleo) with EVOO or high-oleic sunflower or canola oil, plus fish >1/wk, plus some fish oil with anti-oxidants. The controls could use PUFA oils and fat and carb macros the same. I think the 50g EVOO is irrelevant then. But I don't think the olive oil people want such a study, they want to push consumption and sales on the basis of dubious science.

[Julie G]

I drone on and wake up to find I have been misunderstood.

Hopefully, less than you think . Use our search engine to find that our previous discussions have taken a deep dive into the Mediterranean diet in general, The PREDIMED trial(s) and much more to generate a broad perspective. I'm not defending Dr. Gundry's use of PREDIMED to support his EVOO recommendations, nor do I think it's helpful to make blanket statements recommending 12 TBSP per day (not one cup!) given that we all have different caloric requirements.

That said, his recommendations are ultimately based upon his clinical results, not published literature, which is why I shared my biomarkers using around 8 TBSP a day. I don't drink the stuff, but really enjoy the taste and find it quite easy to use a few TBSP here and there as a finishing oil on salads and vegetables. I also enjoy tree nuts, avocados, olives, fatty fish, etc. to achieve a fat macronutrient ratio of around 70% (plus a long daily fast & exercise) to get into mild ketosis. I fully respect your decision to abstain from using higher amounts because the scientific literature doesn't support the recommendation. If my biomarkers or clinical picture suggested a problem, I would also abstain.

One of my triplet daughters is Italian (she married an Italian banker and became a citizen) and obtains pure EVOO from the family olive trees and press so I don't have to buy from Dr Guidry.

LOL help me understand. ONE of your triplets is Italian... Is that even possible?

[Verax]

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One of my triplet daughters is Italian (she married an Italian banker and became a citizen) and obtains pure EVOO from the family olive trees and press so I don't have to buy from Dr Guidry.

LOL help me understand. ONE of your triplets is Italian... Is that even possible?

She hasn't spit for 23andme or ancestry.com but I looked at her passport so I am confident she is Italian. Likewise, another, in New York, hasn't spit but is Jewish, and the third doesn't spit so I don't know their DNA but I was there at the conception, arrival, graduations, marriages, and four grandchildren. I haven't talked with them about ApoE4 status. I am in pre-screening for the Generation Study 2 (E3/E4, had the first memory test) and I have been told I will be offered genetic counseling (waiting for GeneMatch to send a kit!). 23andme doesn't provide genetic nor health counseling and their mother died a dozen years ago. I'm going to a family reunion shortly so will have a lot to talk about if others wish. We don't have family history of AD but some of the other polymorphisms are quite interesting, for good or bad repute. I saw one doctor already who seemed scared about the whole process of direct-to-consumer genetic testing and the good information patients share as on this board. I have to try to be patient. That reminds me that I need to introduce myself in the Getting Started section.... Thanks, Julie G