Can I kill myself with spinach?

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Lindy
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Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby Lindy » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:08 pm

I've been dutifully following Bredersen protocol by piling on the leafy greens and cruciferous veggies, but never gave it a thought until I noticed that today's Chronometer reading said my salad had 801.6 mcg of Vitamin K (890% of my daily needs) - almost all of that from spinach. My small bunch (3.5 ounces) of spinach was 479 mcg all by itself (532%). My whole-food multivitamin supplement also chips in with 63.8 mcg (71%). Looking back at my 3-month average, I see that I routinely eat about 520 mcg of K a day (578%).

I know you can take too much vitamin K if you're on dialysis or taking certain kinds of drugs, but can healthy people overdose on greens? (This video seems to say yes: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/overdosing-on-greens/. But most sources suggest that no, you just can't.)

I realize there may be bioavailability issues with plant-based sources of Vitamin K, so maybe I'm saved from gruesome death of vegetable-induced green coma, but is there some guideline out there to tell me when I've gone overboard? And if nothing else, am I wasting money on buying so much spinach - money that could go into my raw organic almond butter fund?
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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby Andru » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:19 pm

Lindy wrote:I've been dutifully following Bredersen protocol by piling on the leafy greens and cruciferous veggies, but never gave it a thought until I noticed that today's Chronometer reading said my salad had 801.6 mcg of Vitamin K (890% of my daily needs) - almost all of that from spinach. My small bunch (3.5 ounces) of spinach was 479 mcg all by itself (532%). My whole-food multivitamin supplement also chips in with 63.8 mcg (71%). Looking back at my 3-month average, I see that I routinely eat about 520 mcg of K a day (578%).

I know you can take too much vitamin K if you're on dialysis or taking certain kinds of drugs, but can healthy people overdose on greens? (This video seems to say yes: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/overdosing-on-greens/. But most sources suggest that no, you just can't.)

I realize there may be bioavailability issues with plant-based sources of Vitamin K, so maybe I'm saved from gruesome death of vegetable-induced green coma, but is there some guideline out there to tell me when I've gone overboard? And if nothing else, am I wasting money on buying so much spinach - money that could go into my raw organic almond butter fund?


I can't find a source right now as I'm not at my computer, but if I recall, vitamin K in plants is "K1". Similar to plant-based vitamin A, there's been no known case of overdosing on vitamin K or vitamin A from plants. Pre-formed vitamins in animal products like offal, however, is a different story.

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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby NF52 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:22 pm

Not sure which sounds worse: Lindy’s vegetable green coma of Vitamin K or Andru’s animal offal! Luckily, the good folks at Livestrong say that both natural
forms of Vitamin K cannot be over-absorbed by the body, therefore you can avoid the green coma effect!
As someone who likes spinach and almond butter, just not together, I may never look at either without laughing!
Lindy, I may have to hire you as my vegan nutritionist; you’d be sure to make life colorful!
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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby Stavia » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:56 pm

Its safe unless you are on warfarin :)

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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby slacker » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:53 am

Is this similar to death by chocolate?

On a more serious note, here's a link to the Linus Pauling Institute on Vitamin K. You may want to check out the form of K in your supplement.
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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby PBW » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:42 am

I don't think so but you can possibly get a kidney stone from the oxalic acid like I did?

Good article...as I read updated information on the function of each supplement I take...I am stunned by how much research is contributing to our knowledge.

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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby Julie G » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:23 am

I'll take the contrarian opinion with PBW... and say maybe. It's unlikely that spinach will kill you, but eaten in excess amounts it could make you sick. It's very high in oxalates which I suspect have contributed to worsening bladder symptoms for me. Since I've been consciously reducing oxalates (while still eating smaller amounts of spinach, and other oxalate-rich food) my bladder is happier for it.

I've been thinking a lot about how a diet very heavy in plants can affect us. The idea that they're aways beneficial and harmless is just plain false. We have to be aware of goitergenic effect from too many cruciferous vegetables, the adverse effects effects from an excess of oxalates found in veggies like spinach, and of course, the insidious inflammatory effect that lectins have on many of us. Those are just a few examples!

The title of your thread reminded me of a thought provoking older article that has stuck with me: Are your fruits and vegetables trying to kill you? By replacing our starchy carbs with non-starchy "healthy" vegetables could we accidentally be doing more harm than good. This article suggests that it's the hormetic effect from eating vegetables that benefits us; the small amount of stress (from goiteregenic activity, oxalates, lectins, even pesticides) that ultimately strengthen us from the body's natural repair process. But what if we overwhelm the body with too much stress? I think the jury's out on this one. I'm being a lot more careful with my choices and paying attention to the effect various vegetables have on me. I still think they can comprise the bulk of one's diet, but they need to be chosen with careful consideration, constant observation about they make you feel, and some smart tweaking.

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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby slacker » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:11 am

Julie G wrote:I'll take the contrarian opinion


What a great post Julie! Deep bow in your direction. What makes it hard for me to determine food triggered symptoms is that it seems impossible to change just one thing at a time, then have time to carefully monitor results before something else changes. But excellent food for thought (sorry I just had to say it...)!
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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby Plumster » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:14 am

I was eating too much raw spinach and got small kidney stones. They are indeed high in oxalates. You can avoid oxalates to a large degree by boiling the spinach. There's an additional thing to consider: don't re-heat spinach, because it can become toxic. As with any other particular food item, moderation is key. Better to eat a variety of greens.
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Re: Can I kill myself with spinach?

Postby Genesis322 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:44 pm

Spinach is high in beta-caratine so you can expect your skin to turn orangish yellow as a sign of eating too much of it. I noticed this a few days ago and was surprised because I didn't know greens could do that but apparently spinach is pretty orange underneath all that green.


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