Dr. Gabrielle Lyon - Benefits of Higher Protein

[circular]

Eating protein in less-than-30-gram amounts during the day might not provide the 2 grams of leucine Dr. Lyons said is needed at a single meal to start the muscle-building process. If Longo is right, consuming 30 grams at one time gives you one adequate boost of leucine, TOR and IGF1 per day to maintain or build muscle, while minimizing protein the rest of the day helps reduce the cancer risk.

Thanks xactly. I have a number of things at present interfering with the one meal per day approach, but I may get there at some point if I become convinced it's necessary. In the meantime, I recognize your suggestion that it may be a way to limit protein and its risks vis aging and longevity, while also getting its growth factor benefits to assist with muscle building. The problem is I still question whether Longo's and Gundry's low protein targets are right for me (and others who need to build more muscle to avoid or address muscle weakness). Specific to those in ketosis, I also wonder about the many other people who worry about how much weight loss they experience in ketosis. In addition to us needing robust muscular health in general, I think for me, and possibly others in this ketosis > low BMI camp, building muscle while in ketosis becomes a way to maintain and add weight and bulk. The trick would be to use a meter to be sure the additional protein isn't kicking one out of ketosis. It may cause lower levels of BHB but be a better balance if the protein is eaten optimally for its muscle and brain growth factors ... ie, after plenty of exercise.

I listened to Rhonda Patrick interviewing Longo the other day. Longo believes that people should think twice (my words) about staying in ketosis since no Blue Zones practice it. If I'm not mistaken, many also reference Blue Zones when advocating low protein diets. I'm personally getting tired of people revering Blue Zone diets in the absence of robust and clinically useful genetic comparisons between the eater and those populations, not to mention an assessment of the eater's muscle health. We always, appropriately, advise to exercise (ie, be fit), but then dietary and protein recommendations for our genotype are often (not always but usually by people promoting specific diets) made without reference to one's muscle health. So my concerns may well not apply to everyone, but whether they post or not, I'd guess many E4s here have suboptimal muscle tone, whether due to a sedentary lifestyle or physical impediments to some forms of exercise.

I took some (sloppy) notes while listening to the interview with Longo. Not sure what here is direct quote and what not, but I think I captured the concepts:

18:20

[General] Proteins and amino acids regulate IGF-1, which in simple organisms has an important role in aging, but it's not clear the relative importance of IGF-1 vs insulin vs growth hormone receptor dependent signaling, which is independent of the first two. Most likely it's growth hormone and growth hormone receptor that are master controllers and IGF-1 seems to be one the axis that regulate or accelerate aging in multiple cell types. Mutations in growth hormone receptor (e180 mutation or growth hormone deficiency) live longer and healthier ('huge effect'). People in Equador with GHR mutation 'seem to be protected from age related cognitive decline'.

28:00

Rhonda asking: Limiting glucose important for bioavailability of IGF-1 through some of the IGF-1 binding proteins and regulating its transcription. [ie, avoiding negative consequences????]

Valter: All interconnected we don't know enough. Insulin and IGF-1 interchangeable and bind to IGF-1 receptor with different affinity. DN know how they're connected but they are and both linked to growth hormone signaling.

Rhonda: Limited protein not as key if total kilocals kept under a certain level in term of activating IGF-1. If low enough energy from glucose, amino acids can go higher.

Valter: Right, consistent with work in yeast. There's a network, not a pathway, interconnects PKAI and TOR and PKINase. In yeast sugar seems to dominate and protein second most important, so if remove sugar and increase protein that's not so bad. But if have both then you see much more the protein dependent sensitization.

[Granted that's yeast ]

[Julie G]

Hat tip to Theresa for finding and posting this on our Facebook page. Here’s an interesting paper in which the authors propose specific macronutrient proportions to protect against Alzheimer’s for different stages of life including: youth 0-20, early middle age 20-40, late middle age, 40-60, and late age 60+. They arrive at their conclusions by examining the average American diet between 1929-2005 correlated between historical per capita personal income and age-adjusted death rates for AD in each state.

Proportions of macronutrients, including specific dietary fats, in prospective anti-Alzheimer’s diet
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598- ... AyBb5F-fRA

The main finding of this work is that lower consumption of protein in the mid-life and higher for the period of late age, compared with what was eaten in the USA, may benefit our health and longevity. We propose that these potentially prophylactic proportions of protein to other macronutrients maintained throughout life will reduce the burden of AD and other age related degenerative diseases as well as will extend the health-span and longevity.

Check out Table 1 for their recommendations. For those of us in late middle age (age 40-60): c-50%, p-6%, f-44%; for those over age 60: c-43%, p-17%, f-50%. Note the huge increase in the percent of protein recommended between the two groups.

The methods were pretty convoluted, but I'm guessing that a lower carb diet wasn't even examined as that wouldn't have been a "thing" prior to 2000. (Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.) It's also worth noting that fairly high levels of SFA are predicted to be protective.

[DoubleBond]

Very interesting paper, many thanks to Julie and Theresa for pointing it out!

Just one correction: paper's recommendation for age 60+ seems to be c-43%, p-17%, f-40%. So the increase in proteins after 60 comes at the expense of decreases in both carbs AND fats.

I checked my proportions for the last year on cronometer, and the averages are c-39%, p-15%, f-44%, with 2% coming from occasional alcohol. Most of my proteins come from fish, eggs, and plants, carbs come mostly from fruits and veggies; fats from olive oil, nuts, and fish. It would be interesting to know what other people average.

[circular]

I still need to fully check out the paper Julie posted here in January. I agree with the general concept that protein requirements change with age and health conditions, but I admit that a scan of the introduction left me totally befuddled. Hopefully their process will make sense to me with a long, careful read. In the conclusion they state:

Specifically, we postulate that protein intake in early middle age and late middle age should be reduced by half by comparison to historical consumption in the USA.

Without reading the paper yet, I think given the sad state of health affairs, at least in the US where chronic disease now commonly starts during young and mid-life years, it's hard for me to support reduced protein as blanket advice (if they present it that way). That suggests most people don't already have sub-clinical if not clinically apparent chronic disease process. I suspect most Americans if not also people in other industrialized countries do. The messaging seems backwards to me. If Gabrielle Lyon and the team of researchers she follows are correct in saying that sarcopenia and anabolic resistance begin somewhere in middle age, in part due to decreased anabolic hormones (I think in the 30s and 40s), and that insulin resistance starts in that sarcopenic muscle, then I don't see how limiting protein during these years is beneficial for AD prevention, especially in the context of the relatively high carb percentage the researchers promote. I think a better approach is figuring out what combination of exercise, fasting and leucine works to signal anabolic processes at the individual level after a fast and/or exercise, while also acknowledging the critical importance of all the amino acids as building blocks of so many important things throughout the body, including blood and gut cells, which have a high turnover rate.

In a recent interview with Dave Asprey (wherein Dave might offend a vegan or two), Gabrielle mentions that amino acids trigger muscle MTOR while insulin triggers liver MTOR. I don't know anything about this but it sounds worth understanding, since many people base their fear of protein on MTOR signaling, which I think may be simplistic if not understood in context.

This paper by Donald Layman is just out:

Optimizing Adult Protein Intake During Catabolic Health Conditions

It's focused on the older set while also clarifying some of the concepts that aren't described well in podcasts. Layman's paper also seems very balanced as to what concepts still lack sufficient research evidence. In contrast to the paper Proportions of macronutrients, including specific dietary fats, in prospective anti-Alzheimer’s diet, it states:

Emerging evidence reveals the optimal protein intake is more than simply a percentage of daily energy but a meal-to-meal decision about protein quantity and quality.

For now I'm still in this boat and find it to be much more consistent with the personalized medicine perspective as well.