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Diet confusion

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:20 pm
by Scaredstiff1223
I’ve read keto diets are great for inflammation and autoimmune disorders, but I’m not sure if eating all that meat is healthy for 4/4 people. It’s so confusing. So at this point I’ve been off all processed foods for at least the last 5 months, I’ve cut out added sugars, have boneless, skinless chicken breast 3 nights a week, and I’m trying to keep my carbs between 50-75 grams daily. I have limited dairy, two to three eggs a week with 1 slice of whole wheat bread and Greek yogurt in my fruit shakes. I would think this is a pretty healthy diet until I find something better. I just can’t live the rest of my life solely on plant based foods in order to help decrease my chances of getting a disease that I may never get. I guess I’d rather enjoy my life than live the rest of it salivating over foods I shouldn’t eat. So, do you think this is basically a healthy diet?

I so hate that I got this test result!!

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:28 pm
by Magda
You are so right the Ketogenic diet is a great tool for lowering systemic inflammation and helping to balance the immune system but the Ketogenic is not saturated with meat (protein). It is high in good fats, moderate protein, generous amounts of low glycemic vegetables, and some low sugar fruits.
Dr. Bredesen's general recommendation on protein consumption (depends on where you stand) is 0.8 gram - 1.0 gram per kilogram of your lean body mass.
Here is more information on Ketogenic diet from our Wiki page:
https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Ketosis_and_Ketogenic_Diet

Scaredstiff1223 big kudos to you for eliminating all the processed foods and sugar from you diet your brain is probably super happy:)
What do you miss the most in your new way of eating?
Do you eat colorful vegetables, seasonal low sugar fruit, mushrooms, avocados, greens, nuts, seeds, lectin free grains, fish, seafood?

Magda

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:39 pm
by slacker
Scaredstiff1223 wrote:I’ve read keto diets are great for inflammation and autoimmune disorders, but I’m not sure if eating all that meat is healthy for 4/4 people. It’s so confusing. So at this point I’ve been off all processed foods for at least the last 5 months, I’ve cut out added sugars, have boneless, skinless chicken breast 3 nights a week, and I’m trying to keep my carbs between 50-75 grams daily. I have limited dairy, two to three eggs a week with 1 slice of whole wheat bread and Greek yogurt in my fruit shakes. I would think this is a pretty healthy diet until I find something better. I just can’t live the rest of my life solely on plant based foods in order to help decrease my chances of getting a disease that I may never get. I guess I’d rather enjoy my life than live the rest of it salivating over foods I shouldn’t eat. So, do you think this is basically a healthy diet?

I so hate that I got this test result!!


It sounds like you have made some good changes already by stopping processed food and cutting out added sugars!

There is no consensus on many areas of diet. Yes, it is confusing. We have members who are in ketosis who eat no or very little meat, focusing on seafood and vegetables with higher levels of plant fat. And they enjoy what they are eating. There are other members who continue to eat meat, probably not in excess, and make sure it is grass fed. Some eat some dairy, some don't. There is much debate on saturated fats, from both plants and animals. Each of us has to make their own decisions based on their values, priorities, and understanding of incomplete science.

Dr. Stavia gives sensible advise on nutrition in the primer. If you haven't read that chapter, it may be helpful to do so. Stavia, and many of us, strongly feel that good glucose control is incredibly important in avoiding cognitive decline. She discusses insulin resistance (IR) here, how to reduce IR here, and reviews useful blood tests for determine IR here. Most of these are common tests that can be ordered by a primary care provider. The results of these tests would be helpful for you to determine if your diet needs further adjustment.

I know this is complicated information; read it slowly, and come back to re-read it frequently. One step at a time. Continue to ask questions.

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:41 pm
by TheresaB
Scaredstiff1223 wrote:but I’m not sure if eating all that meat is healthy for 4/4 people.


Keto does not necessarily equate to eating a lot of meat. My husband and I are basically vegetarian eating some, but not much, shellfish, whitefish (both wild caught only) and eggs (Omega-3 or pastured), but that's it, no other meat/animal products, I've heard that this is called ovo-pagen. We only eat any animal protein one meal a day IF we eat animal protein at all that day, we have completely vegan days something like 1-2 times a week. We're both ketotic. We both eat plenty of good food.

In fact, IMHO, most ApoE4s who eat keto and don't incorporate a number of low glycemic plant foods in their diet are setting themselves up for additional issues down the line.

For more info, go to the Wiki article on Ketosis and Ketogenic diet, https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Ketosis_and_Ketogenic_Diet, and scroll down/ link to the discussion on the ketogenic diet

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:56 pm
by circular
It is confusing. Five or more years in and I'm still not very confident in the protein recommendations, whether for low, moderate or high amounts. I suspect it's much more nuanced than that. Since advantages of low and moderate protein seem to crop up here much more often than any mention that high protein might have a place, I started this thread a little while back.

I don't 'follow' Dr. Lyon but find her comments rather intriguing. They did cause me to start eating more protein at meals, but it has to be in the context of exercise to properly manage the mTOR and IGF-1 spikes, and I'm limited as to how much exercise I can get. I'm very much still a work in process balancing all this, but I do believe I feel better with more animal protein, at least 'moderate', but really more than that.

I also read yesterday that it's important to people detoxing. I'm not sure why, but aren't nearly all of us detoxing from something? Another angle to look into.

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:29 am
by jgilberAZ
What is the issue with saturated fat and apoe4?

Is it not that LDL increases?

The question is, though, is that bad?
What do the clinical studies show?

From my studies, I've come to the understanding that a high LDL is actually protective, decreasing all-cause mortality (google LDL and all-cause mortality).

So, does high LDL automatically lead to heart disease?

Short answer, no.

What leads to heart disease is glycated LDL.

So, if you have a high blood sugar environment in which LDLs become glycated, then, yes ... having more LDL is a bad thing.

But, if you have a low blood sugar environment in which LDLs don't become glycated, then, having more LDL is protective.


I've come to believe that my Apoe3/4 status is a benefit, not a curse, provided I keep insulin levels under control.


For me, that means a mostly-carnivore diet.

No blood sugar swings == healthy LDL == healthy mind and body.

Google:

glycated LDL
glycation and heart disease
glycation and alzheimers

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:08 pm
by Scaredstiff1223
I’m not sure what glycated ldl is? But my LDL-P is very high. 1754.
LDL-c is 119
My total is 207
HDL-C is 67
And tryglycerides is 99
All my glycemic control numbers as well as insulin resistance numbers are optional range.
So can you tell me if my LDL is glycated by looking at those numbers?

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:34 pm
by jgilberAZ
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycation

Glycation (sometimes called non-enzymatic glycosylation) is the result of the covalent bonding of a sugar molecule, such as glucose or fructose, to a protein or lipid molecule, without the controlling action of an enzyme.


If your insulin and blood sugar are under control, then it’s not likely that your lipids are glycated.

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:39 pm
by SusanJ
In reality, you might still need to test.

The lowest A1c I've ever had is 5.4 (not as good as others with low carb/sugar approaches) with minimal carb/sugar intake, but my oxLDL is 41 (where "a cut-off of <60 U/L defines a population with a low relative risk of developing metabolic syndrome").

Re: Diet confusion

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:59 pm
by mike
I'm new here, and have been following a different keto diet for a couple of years that has been working for me. It is called Optimal Ketogenic Living (OKL), and calls for much more protein (to keep muscles from breaking down) and very low carbs. Fat levels are a range based on desired outcome. Being diabetic, this makes sense to me, and keeps my blood sugars from spiking. For my height, I'm supposed to have at least 160 gr of protein and less than 40 gr carbs a day. According to OKL, animal protein (including beef) is fine, as long as it is raised properly. I lost 60 pounds in my first year, and have kept it off this last year. I don't see any way to get that kind of protein, while keeping carbs down, by eating just plants. Can someone explain to me why animal protein is considered bad here?