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would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

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Fiver
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would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby Fiver » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:19 am

There seems to be quite a lot of good evidence that apoe4 + herpes virus = LOAD.

If it is the active viral outbreaks that matter, then latent infections might not be so bad. Reducing trees, getting enough sleep, or taking acyclovir-tpe drugs can help with that. But even latent infections seem to remodel cell metabolism to create a safer environmental for future virus production. So it would be much better, of course, to prevent infections in the first place.

Just wondering, if there were good vaccines for hsv-1, hsv-2, hsv-6, hsv-7, varicella zoster virus (there is), and cytomegalovirus how many cases of LOAD would be prevented? Any thoughts?

From what I've seen, it probably would help *a lot*. Especially apoe4s.

(Wouldn't help us adults, of course. But future generations who haven't yet been exposed.)
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby slacker » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:36 pm

Fiver wrote:There seems to be quite a lot of good evidence that apoe4 + herpes virus = LOAD.

If it is the active viral outbreaks that matter, then latent infections might not be so bad. Reducing trees, getting enough sleep, or taking acyclovir-tpe drugs can help with that. But even latent infections seem to remodel cell metabolism to create a safer environmental for future virus production. So it would be much better, of course, to prevent infections in the first place.

Just wondering, if there were good vaccines for hsv-1, hsv-2, hsv-6, hsv-7, varicella zoster virus (there is), and cytomegalovirus how many cases of LOAD would be prevented? Any thoughts?

From what I've seen, it probably would help *a lot*. Especially apoe4s.

(Wouldn't help us adults, of course. But future generations who haven't yet been exposed.)


What evidence have you seen that leads you to believe that vaccines against these viruses would reduce AD in future generations? I'm skeptical that there will be one magic bullet, since there seem to be multiple factors contributing to cognitive decline. Please elaborate!
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby Fiver » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:29 pm

Hi Slacker. Sure, I'll try. I agree that there are multiple factors. I think this is one.

Let's see. Recent evidence supports previous work implicating infections and the brain's innate immune response in the development of cognitive decline. Herpes viruses and other pathogens can be found inside amyloid plaques, entombed like the A-beta is indeed a last line of scorched earth defense. HSV-6 and -7 are getting attention, but hsv-1 and others also are linked to pathoglogy. Virus particles bind to sites new the APP protein and can influence the enzymes cleaving APP to form A-beta. These pathogens - particularly the viruses - can be found in high levels in AD brains, more so than in healthy brains. I recently read a paper - I'll have to find it tomorrow at work - that seemed to show that apoe4 itself wasn't a problem....until hsv showed up. That's a big claim and I want t re-read that study before making up my mind about it. AD pathology can be induced in cells by viral infection. The viruses also seem to alter cell metabolism in ways to make it a more friendly environment for future viruses, things like down regulating autophagy and preventing the clearing of old cells (they might be inside of those cells, so I guess that would be pretty useful for them).

I really should pull the papers. I'll try to find time tomorrow.

I've been reading pretty intensively and the hsv story really seems to make sense to me. Maybe it just hits home, as I have all the ingredients floating around inside my head.

Of course, a vaccine wouldn't help us. Well, maybe it could help prevent re-activations like the chicken pox / shingles vaccine. But I think.....and it's just a gut feeling....that a vaccine against hsv-1, for example, could prevent a significant number of cases.

That's what I was thinking....
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby CarrieS » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Last week I was talking to my sister in law about hsv and she was encouraging me to look in to getting vaccinated since my mother had hsv and developed AD so this is timely conversation for me. Thank you Fiver for exploring this subject!
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby slacker » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:23 am

CarrieS wrote:Last week I was talking to my sister in law about hsv and she was encouraging me to look in to getting vaccinated since my mother had hsv and developed AD so this is timely conversation for me. Thank you Fiver for exploring this subject!


Is there a herpes simplex virus (hsv) vaccine available? Are you thinking about chickenpox (varicella) or shingles (herpes zoster) vaccine?
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby CarrieS » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:32 am

She was probably talking about chicken pox and shingles. We discussed both live and dead virus vaccinations, both of which made me feel uncomfortable. I honestly feel a little resistant about these so appreciate this discussion.
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby xactly » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:26 am

My mother-in-law, who was at least a 3/4 and possibly a 4/4, had shingles. After the outbreak, she began showing signs of AD and was subsequently diagnosed with it. Although she also had problems sleeping, she managed other lifestyle factors pretty well, particularly exercise.

I got the Zostavax vaccination as soon as I could, and I am on a waiting list for the Shingrix vaccination.

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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby slacker » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:29 am

Most of us have been exposed to the chickpox virus (varicella) at some point in our life, so no need to think about getting that vaccine! I personally plan to get the new shingles vaccine series at some point, less for the potential benefit of avoiding shingles, and more for the decreased risk of post herpetic neuralgia if and when I ever get shingles. Anyone with a history of chickenpox (ie most of us) are at risk for shingles as we age. Our immune systems are less able to keep the varicella virus that is hanging out in our nervous system after chickpox infection from breaking out and causing shingles. The new shingles shot, Shingrix, is FDA approved in the US for use in those of us over 50 (my demographic).

My rhetorical question for Fiver: if one has already been exposed to varicella, will the shingles vaccine prevent viral load in the brain with the potential for developing AD? Or is the horse already out of the barn?
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby CarrieS » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:34 am

xactly wrote:My mother-in-law, who was at least a 3/4 and possibly a 4/4, had shingles. After the outbreak, she began showing signs of AD and was subsequently diagnosed with it. Although she also had problems sleeping, she managed other lifestyle factors pretty well, particularly exercise.

I got the Zostavax vaccination as soon as I could, and I am on a waiting list for the Shingrix vaccination.


Are those the live or dead viruses?

My mother had herpes simplex in her mouth in her late 40's (it was really bad). I noticed off behaviors starting in her early 50's that just kept building. Her mother presented with AD around 85 so I had a base on which to figure out what the future was going to look like. Bredesen's Type 3 AD makes sense to me in respect to my mother. Mom broke out in shingles in her 70's but it was a pretty mild case.
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Re: would hsv vaccines make AD rare?

Postby xactly » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:05 am

Zostavax is live, but Shingrix is dead. I did Zostavax several years ago when it was the only shingles vaccination available. People who have had Zostavax are encouraged to also do Shingrix; however, if you have the Shingrix vaccine, I don't know if it's necessary or advisable to also have Zostavax. Shingrix is currently on backorder in the US due to demand, and you have to take two doses, 2 to 6 months apart.


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