An informal survey on Fasting

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Rainbow
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby Rainbow » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:02 pm

  1. ApoE4 status: 4/4.
  2. Type of fasting: on most days, I eat in a six-hour window, usually from 11 am to 5 pm, but I switch it up a lot. I've also done longer fasts (~70 hours, with small amounts of coconut oil, nuts and miso soup).
  3. Reason for fasting: all the health benefits already mentioned by others, plus convenience. In addition, I've found that fasting improves my mood and can lead to a heightened sense of awareness, especially if multi-day. One of my longer fasts was partially motivated by being low on money!
  4. Level of difficulty: around 2/5, but it varies. I enjoy eating and sometimes I don't feel like fasting. Longer fasts can be harder (if I'm feeling stressed for whatever reason, I usually just break the fast).
  5. Diet: moderate everything, including carbs. I currently eat potatoes and bananas almost every day, but I do exercise a lot. My main sources of protein are fish and eggs (I probably eat about 60 g a day). I cook with avocado oil and season with generous amounts of olive oil.
  6. Results: improved sleep. Also, when I first started intermittent fasting, it was very difficult, and I'd get light-headed in the morning. I no longer have this problem. I've had issues with an increased heart rate, especially when trying to eat keto in addition to fasting, but since I've increased carb intake, salt intake, and started taking B-vitamins for methylation, this is no longer an issue. I seemed to lose a noticeable amount of belly fat during my multi-day fast, but didn't do any body composition scans, so who knows — maybe I was just bloated prior to the fast. Haven't been tracking biomarkers enough to say much more.
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mike
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby mike » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:18 pm

I'm mid-experiment, and will update in a few weeks after I get lab results done. I completed a water-only fast of 19 days a couple of weeks ago. A little over a year ago, I did a 13 day and a 17 day fast, with a couple months in between. Prior to the fast, on a low carb, moderate protein and fat diet, my fasting blood sugars were in the 220-230 range. During the fast, they went down to the 80-90 range. After the fast, they tended to rise by about 10 each day until they reached 207, and then they started to drop 9-10 each day until this morning it was back down to 159. I'm back to my pre-fast diet. During the fast, I stopped most hard exercise, just sticking to walking the dogs. Since the fast, I've been building my exercise back up - longer walks, Physical therapy to build strength and volleyball. Not yet back to pre-fast levels, but getting close. This change in Blood glucose is predicted by research done in mice and in human cell cultures, where beta cells in the pancreas actually decrease during fasting, but then seem to regenerate based on stem cell activation.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

During the fast, I lost 10% of body weight, going from 209 to 188, and I'm now back up to 193, and will try to level out below 200. In the new year, I plan to do another, with the goal of dropping another 20 lbs and regaining 10 back. From what I can tell from the research, it is this regrowth period where most repair is done.

1. ApoE: 4/4
2. Fasting Type: long-term water fasting, Also I do mild IF with 12 hours fasting and 3-4 hours fasting prior to sleeping.
3. Reason: Weight loss, Autophagy, Improving IR
4. Difficulty: 2 - it was a lot easier than I thought it would be
5. Diet: low carb, moderate protein and fat
6. Will wait for another month to do tests, so my body has had time to resettle.
Sonoma Mike
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Anna
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby Anna » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:33 pm

Fiver wrote:I also can taste ketones occasionally. I keep waiting for my dog to react....they're supposed to detect things like this right? Well, my mutant labradoodle either has a poor nose or figures that if I die he'll finally get to sleep on the bed. :)

My labradoodle doesn't seem to notice the ketones either. :)
~Anna
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samspade
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby samspade » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 am

I'm 65 and was diagnosed PT2D 3.5 years ago. Reversed that with keto light a1c 5.9 to 5.4. In June of 2018 went strict keto to continue with health improvements. 248 lbs to ~224 lbs and gained unknown muscle mass because of resistance training improvements.

I've had persistent high blood pressure since ~26years old. Now on 3 meds. BP improved a little on strict keto but not enough. See below.

1. Apoe4 status (4/4, 4/3, etc.)
3/4

2. Type of fasting (with description - e.g. Multi day water fast,13 to 17 days, or IF with 6 hours eating, 18 hours fasting)
Trying for
  • 1 to 3 18/6 IF each week
  • 2 to 3 OMAD (22/2 IF) each week
Some weeks don't achieve this because of social obligations, stress or whatever

3. Reason for fasting
  • improve metabolic health (reduce the risk of AD?)
  • autophagy
  • weight loss
  • move me to EF (48hr)
4. How difficult did you find it (scale 1= Not difficult to 5 = Very difficult)
  • Most days very easy (1). Occasionally (<10%) very hard (3 to 5) and on those days I just stop.

5. Were you on in a keto diet prior to the fast (describe - e.g. Low carb, high fat, moderate mostly vegetarian protein)
  • Yes strict LCHF Keto
  • Animal protein
  • Significant omega 3 (sardines, smoked salmon, salmon, other smoked oily fish)

6. What results have you observed
  • Better relationship with food, but needs work
  • Better satiety signals but that needs modest improvement
  • Modest weight loss but haven't pushed yet. Also, have increased resistance training so gaining muscle mass.
  • Systolic BP range 155-135 improved to 140-115, diastolic BP range improved 75-95 to 65-80. I'm hopeful that I can get more BP improvements with continued fasting and weight loss. Maybe I can get off 1 to 2 meds within the 12 month period of strict keto.
  • Improved mental clarity (was not bad) some days especially around fasting events. I can beat my wife at backgammon now and I have never been able to do that. (happy dance)

    I feel better most days I am fasting. I still love eating but eating is not as satisfying now especially post meal. I think this is a good thing but time will tell.

    I have not ventured into EF and may not or may wait till the holidays are over.

    I have my annual physical in February so will have updated blood work then. I have significant dawn effect (FBG ~130) and hope to see that reduced with fasting.
Eric
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby Tincup » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:23 pm

samspade wrote: BP improved a little on strict keto but not enough.


You might try beet root powder as a supplement for BP. The beets will increase your nitric oxide and that has improved BP for some I know. One was a man in his 20's who was going for his FAA flight physical. The doc said everything was good, but wondered why his urine was red. The man told him he just loved beets :lol:

The woman who first mentioned it to me said, "Dr told me to take 1/2 tsp (scoop inside) daily, it did the trick"
IMG_2489.JPG


*************
Potassium.

In his 2001 book, The High Blood Pressure Solution https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004X6WMUS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1, Richard Moore MD PhD makes the case that insulin is the culprit as when it is high, it signals the kidney to retain sodium, and excrete it when low. Hence high BP could be looked at as a sodium excretion program. Moore advocates a 4:1 ratio of potassium to sodium on intake. He was caught up in the low fat dogma so his diet is 70% carbs! He didn't see the forest for the trees in his book. Also points out that the fastest way to lower BP is water fasting, p 270-271 in the book.

A guy I follow on FP has a group 50,000 strong where he leads them in long fasts (some as long as 28 days). His motto is fast well, feed well. In any case he is a huge advocate of potassium citrate supplementation (citrate converts to bicarb in the body). N=1 stories in his group are some profound BP drops. Here is a post he wrote to the group (tread gently or don't do if you have any kidney issues - healthy kidneys will excrete excess potassium).

"So if you start with 1 gram of potassium a day allow 250mg of sodium as added salt ( remember you are getting some from food )
If you take 4 grams of potassium a day then you allow 1 gram of sodium as salt ( and this is a very nice target and one where you will tend to feel and be AWESOME ) at this level with what you also get from food you can be somewhere approaching the 8 grams intake !
The most potassium I have taken over 30 mins is 6 grams ( test ) I tend to take 4 grams every day ( and sometimes 5 when working out hard ) I ALSO now make sure to add the SODIUM as SALT - with 4 grams of potassium this is 1 gram SODIUM !
IN MY VIEW this is the ideal ratio for keto states ( and I have lots of experience now and so many awesome papers on all aspects )
I personally like the citrate ( but use the bicarbonate too )
so here is the instructions
1 gram => 1/2 teaspoon citrate and 1/8 teaspoon of salt
^^^ somewhere to start for the very cautious but much too little
2 gram => one teaspoon citrate and 1/4 teaspoon of salt
^^ a good place to start and very good for FASTING
4 gram => two teaspoons of citrate and a HALF teaspoon of salt
^^ this is my usual intake ( taken over the morning ) I am 70 Kg - THIS IS ALSO my MOTHERS usual intake she is 87 years old and weighs 48 KG ( she is doing very well with blood pressure of 105/55 )
REMEMBER hunter gatherers can have intakes THREE TIMES THAT !
START with a lower dose is fine and work up"


**********
Lastly, in some of the stuff I've been looking into, UV light (sun on skin) activates insulin. Hence getting adequate UV will help.
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Tincup
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samspade
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby samspade » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:35 pm

Tincup wrote:
samspade wrote: BP improved a little on strict keto but not enough.


You might try beet root powder as a supplement for BP.
**********
Lastly, in some of the stuff I've been looking into, UV light (sun on skin) activates insulin. Hence getting adequate UV will help.


I'll start with beet root. the UV light is supposed to do the same thing as beet root but I work in a basement and have very little opportunity to get UV in the winter.

Thanks for all of the great info.
Eric
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby andlewis » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:56 am

1. Apoe4 status? 3/4
2. Type of fasting? 21:3, with quarterly 5 day, and the occasional 2 day.
3. Reason for fasting? brain health, weight loss, acid reflux, general health
4. How difficult did you find it? Daily is easy. Difficulty varies otherwise..
5. Were you on in a keto diet prior to the fast? Yes, but it was lazy keto
6. What results have you observed? Weight loss, reduced cravings, better sleep, no acid reflux, improved cholesterol + thyroid

mike
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby mike » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:36 am

samspade wrote:I have significant dawn effect (FBG ~130) and hope to see that reduced with fasting.


Do you take your BG before sleep to know if the 130 is lower or higher than bedtime?
Sonoma Mike
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samspade
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby samspade » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:40 am

mike wrote:
samspade wrote:I have significant dawn effect (FBG ~130) and hope to see that reduced with fasting.


Do you take your BG before sleep to know if the 130 is lower or higher than bedtime?


I haven't done that. I don't have BG meter but my wife does. I'll have to do that.

The 130 is from my recent physical. But my HbA1c is 5.4.
Eric
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mike
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Re: An informal survey on Fasting

Postby mike » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:48 am

samspade wrote:I have significant dawn effect (FBG ~130) and hope to see that reduced with fasting.


Do you take your BG before sleep to know if the 130 is lower or higher than bedtime?

Tincup wrote:You might try beet root powder as a supplement for BP


Just make sure that they have removed the sugar, if you are having high glucose levels.

I follow the diet that Tincup mentions, and also have started supplementing with potassium citrate. I take 3 gr, and add salt to my food to get the 4:1 ratio. I've noticed that my BP have been reduced recently, but did not associate with the potassium... Many folks complain that it is difficult to take, but I just chug 1 1/2 teaspoons in a bit of water, than follow with some more water. Can upset stomach.
Sonoma Mike
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