Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

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WifeOfJoel
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Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby WifeOfJoel » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:25 pm

I had been vegan for 20 years before adding eggs in the last year. I read Dr. Bredesen's End of Alzheimer's and Dr. Perlmutter's Grain Brain, and am now reading Dr. Gundry's Plant Paradox. I have since drastically cut back on the gluten and grains in general, and increased eggs (organic and cage-free, but not always "pastured"). I think I may have increased my intake of coconut oil as well, while decreasing fruit.

My lipids in 2016 (age 36, vegan, eating gluten and fruit to my heart's content) were:
Total cholesterol - 150
HDL - 61
TGs - 46
LDL - 80
Chol/HDLC ratio - 2.5
Non HDL chol - 89

Now, they are (just turned 39, eating eggs but no meat, less gluten, less fruit):
Total cholesterol - 175
HDL - 54
TGs - 75
LDL - 105 (HIGH!)
Chol/HDLC ratio - 3.2
Non HDL chol - 121

and this time I also checked:
sdLDL - 23 (normal is under 40, although I saw in a different thread that Dr. Gundry recommends under 20)
hsCRP - 0.5 (<1.0 lower relative cardiovascular risk)
Homocysteine - 11.2 (HIGH)
B12 - 423 (normal is 200-1100)
Folate - 14.7 (normal is >5.4)
B6 - 24.5 (HIGH; normal is 2.1-21.7 ng/mL)

While I have had total cholesterol ranging 150-181 in my past, my LDL has NEVER been high and my HDL was always in the 60s. I'm wondering if it's from eggs, or something else (getting 2.5 years older, slightly less exercise, increased stress and pollution from moving to LA three years ago?)? My mother's total cholesterol is over 300, so I could have some genetic disposition for high lipids. Thankfully, cardiovascular problems such as heart attacks and stroke do NOT run in the family. Glucose, insulin, and HbA1c are fine (83, 3.1, and 5.2, respectively).

I am not surprised at the high homocysteine, as I've always been high MCV or MCH, so I've suspected B12 deficiency from my diet, coupled with a MTHFR variant I saw from my raw 23andme data. Although my B12 and folate currently look normal, my B6 is high! Given that "Homocysteine levels in the blood higher than 6 are associated with more rapid loss of brain tissue with aging," I need to figure this out! Looking at the methylation wiki, I am going to pour over the relevant SNPs today. If anyone has further tips, I'd really appreciate them!

My main questions are:
  • Should I be concerned about the high LDL and lower HDL?
  • Has anyone else had the experience of adding in animal foods and/or coconut oil, with negative effects on their lipids?
  • Should I cut out the eggs and/or coconut, or are they not likely the problem?
  • Should I increase B12 and folate, but not B6? Or is my high B6 ok? What about trimethylglycine (TMG)? I read TMG lowers homocysteine but raises LDL :(
  • I'm adding in more exercise and more consistent omega-3 supplementation (algal DHA/EPA supplement) while decreasing omega-6; should I care about the ratio of DHA to EPA? It seems that both have benefits, and I didn't see much of a distinction made on the fat wiki (https://www.apoe4.info/wiki/Fats,_Omega_-3(%CF%89-3)_%26_-6(%CF%89-6),_DHA_and_More).
  • What about the effects of alcohol and caffeine? I drink a little bit of red wine (which should raise my HDL and may lower LDL, but can also raise MCV I believe). I've read caffeine can raise homocysteine, but as you all know, it's beneficial for staving off Alzheimer's (I usually drink a small cup of coffee in the morning, and/or black tea).
  • I've felt weird about decreasing fruit, but that's probably a whole other topic of discussion! I do wonder if there is a connection, however, between decreasing fruit and worsened lipids?

Thanks (and sorry for the long post)!

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby Stavia » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:13 pm

Hi WifeofJoel

Most of us dont overly stress about our lipids, as there is no strong correlation with AD risk. Especially at your age I personally wouldnt factor lipids into my strategies at all. I recommend you step back and look at the big picture in terms of your strategies.
I have written many times in this forum how the USA medical system is heavily skewed in its focus on lipids, in contrast to the European/British approach.
I did a coronary calcium scan in my early 50s. That is a good time to get real cardiovascular risk data.
This is not medical advice - for definitive medical advice you should consult a physician who can assess your personal cardiovascular risk.

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby Stavia » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:15 pm

Ps one needs a significant amount of heavy alcohol intake to raise MCV above normal. This amount of alcohol will cause GGT to be above normal as well. A couple of glasses of wine wont do it.

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby WifeOfJoel » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:08 pm

Thanks, Stavia!
I agree; the USA medical system is comparatively obsessed with lipids! I think because statins are quite profitable here.

I also thought the same thing about alcohol intake and MCV (that it would take considerable alcohol consumption to raise MCV)! I don't see GGT on my labs, but my alkaline phosphatase, AST, and ALT are all on the low end of normal (42, 13, and 7 U/L, respectively). So I'm probably all right there.

My plan is to keep taking B12, folate, and DHA/EPA; increase exercise; increase sleep (I can function with less sleep than most, but am realizing that this is not a good long-term strategy); and try to reduce stress (that last one will be tough. I should meditate, but never seem to make the time).

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby apod » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:59 am

I'd blame the coconut oil more than the eggs. In my experience, SFA really seems to drive up my numbers and coconut-derived oils seemed to be the most effective at doing so. You could probably stack the eggs with a bit of extra fiber and balance the equation. For instance, rather than having them scrambled with coconut oil, maybe something like a vegetable-rich meatloaf cooked with olive oil along with a side of brussels sprouts and avocado would work better. Ymmv.

I tend to not stress over LDL-C, but mine does seem to trend well with LDL-P, and I prefer to see that in the green than in the yellow.

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby slacker » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:12 am

WifeOfJoel wrote:
  • Should I be concerned about the high LDL and lower HDL?
  • Should I increase B12 and folate, but not B6? Or is my high B6 ok? What about trimethylglycine (TMG)? I read TMG lowers homocysteine but raises LDL :(
  • I'm adding in more exercise and more consistent omega-3 supplementation (algal DHA/EPA supplement) while decreasing omega-6; should I care about the ratio of DHA to EPA?


Resuming more exercise will probably help your HDL. It's hard for me to classify a LDL of 105 as high, and I'm a conventionally trained US medical provider! I'd relax on this one. :D I agree with apod that the coconut oil is probably more contributory than the eggs, but I have seen some individuals whose lipid results don't do so well when they eat eggs. I think this is pretty rare, but can happen.

Let SusanJ and the wiki on methylation be your guides on lowering homocysteine. She wisely recommends starting at low doses and with individual supplements, one at a time. A B complex is probably not the right choice for you. Individual supplements are more expensive, but allow you to get what is needed for you personally. Given your MTHFR, do get a methylated form of folic acid. I personally would not add on more B6.

Some functional medicine providers often say that EPA is more helpful for heart and DHA more helpful for brain, but this is most likely theoretical at best and not proven. I wouldn't worry about the ratio.

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby Plumster » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:53 am

This is a controversial issue on this forum, but just adding here that many of us are not followers of Gundry or Pearlmutter.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gun ... -is-wrong/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzhei ... -meathead/
e3/4 MTHFR C677T/A1298C COMT V158M++ COMT H62H++ VDR Taq ++ MTRR A66G ++

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby WifeOfJoel » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:36 pm

Plumster wrote:This is a controversial issue on this forum, but just adding here that many of us are not followers of Gundry or Pearlmutter.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gun ... -is-wrong/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzhei ... -meathead/


Thanks for this! I was already feeling like some of the claims in Grain Brain were unsubstantiated, and given that the only Blue Zone in America is vegetarian, it has always seemed to me that a plant-based diet should be better, even if those plants contain lectins and/or are fruit/ carbs.

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby circular » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:49 pm

WifeOfJoel wrote:
Plumster wrote:This is a controversial issue on this forum, but just adding here that many of us are not followers of Gundry or Pearlmutter.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gun ... -is-wrong/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzhei ... -meathead/


Thanks for this! I was already feeling like some of the claims in Grain Brain were unsubstantiated, and given that the only Blue Zone in America is vegetarian, it has always seemed to me that a plant-based diet should be better, even if those plants contain lectins and/or are fruit/ carbs.

A lot of this could depend on genetic context as well as on how the lectin containing foods are traditionally prepared. Many of the traditional food preparation techniques, such as fermentation and soaking, lesson or deactivate the lectins.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.

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Re: Worsened Lipids from Adding Eggs?

Postby circular » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:50 pm

WifeOfJoel wrote:
Plumster wrote:This is a controversial issue on this forum, but just adding here that many of us are not followers of Gundry or Pearlmutter.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gun ... -is-wrong/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzhei ... -meathead/


Thanks for this! I was already feeling like some of the claims in Grain Brain were unsubstantiated, and given that the only Blue Zone in America is vegetarian, it has always seemed to me that a plant-based diet should be better, even if those plants contain lectins and/or are fruit/ carbs.

Dr. Gundry says his next book, Longevity Paradox, is going to look into the common denominators of the Blue Zone diets. I think it's due out this winter (?).
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.


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